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uber luminal
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I just figured out this week that model rocket starters (the kind that hook up to a lantern batt.) start most thermits (except I never got it to work
with WO3. but I might have had the ratio wrong too)
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MadHatter
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Igniter
How about the permanganate with a drop of concentrated sulphuric acid ? Wouldn't the
resulting manganese heptoxide initiate the reaction ?
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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darkflame89
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Saerynide, there's seems that a minimum of amount of redox stuff to use. I used the same stuff as you, probably both glycerin and potassium
permangante were both bought from the pharmacy as well. The First time i tried this, i used too little KMnO4, as a result nothing worked, the second
time, i used a bit more KMnO4. Still after waiting 5 mins(a very long time), nothing happened to the mixture. Upon this i got impatient and procured
a dropper and dropped a drop of water on to the mixture(don't drop too much water), the mixture immediately flared satisfyingly.
I figured the glycerin was too pure, and it did not have intimate mix with the KMnO4. When a bit water was added, both ingredients mixed and the
reaction occured.
I tried the reaction another time, this time downstairs, in the garden. I poured a large amount of KMnO4 out and poured abit a glycerin on to it.
After 5 seconds the reaction started. I do not this the result due to the presence of wind(Singapore weather is humid).Previously the experiment was
conducted at home in a metal tin. But it appears as though that minute amount of water is required to start the reaction if the glycerin is quite
pure.
[Edited on 19-2-2005 by darkflame89]
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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Quince
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I've never ever been able to ignite thermite. The iron oxide I use is the grey ferrous oxide made by burning steel wool in an airflow, powdered
with a pestle and mortar.
Is it possible to ignite thermite without magnesium, or potassium permanganate, or chlorates, or sulfur, none of which I have access to? My current
arc setup reaches about 2000*C, which I'd think would be enough, but it doesn't seem to do it...
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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thedestroyer5150
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Magnesium ribbons burn at around 1500 F and ignite the thermite which I've seen get up to 4000 F. If the reason you don't want to use it is
because it's hard to find; you can get some at unitednuclear.com; there's lots of great shit there.
Human Life: Sexually transmitted disease; 100% fatal.
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Quince
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They won't ship to Canada.
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chemoleo
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As I said many times before, a couple of sparkling candles will ALWAYS do the job. I yet have to find a thermite where they didn't.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Quince
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I called the fireworks store here and they said fireworks (including sparklers) can't be sold this time of year (I'm in BC).
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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The_Davster
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You should be able to get sparklers in party and/or dollar stores. That is where I get mine.
[Edited on 23-2-2005 by rogue chemist]
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HNO3
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My first thermite was contaminated heavily with styrene (I didn't know it). Sparklers didn't touch it. Call me an idiot, but my latest
thermites have been ignited with a propane torch.
\"In the beginning, God...\" Wait a minute, God doesn\'t exist!!!!!!!!!! \"OK, in the beginning, ummm, hydrogen...\" Wait a minute, what about the
laws of thermodynamics? \"OK, in the beginning, ummm.....UMMMMM, what\'s left to choose from?
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Quince
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How could your thermite have been contaminated? From the aluminum?
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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uber luminal
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Quince. Go to Hobby shop. Look at rockets section in hobby shop. Locate rocket engine starter kit. Buy kit. run run. hurry home. Try thermit.
your ratio also might be wrong. if not, try adding a little bit more Al to the mix.
the rocket starters are meant to be used in starting powdered reactions.
another thing to try when the KMnO4 doesnt work... is to use a lot of it. You of course have to add more sugar too. I ran a series of KMnO4 tests
with my digital thermocouple. a pinch + a drop will trigger around 480C. a few pinches and a large drop get up to 520. more gets up to 590. even
more than that and it gets harder to react it all, but I suppose if you found a way to do it, you might get even hotter.
As for the spark start in other methods, I know spark plugs also work rather well (its what they used to use at work). just be sure to get the
anode close to the mix as thats where the majority of the heat produced by the spark will be.
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Quince
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I got some sparklers. But it didn't start the thermite, as I'm guessing my aluminum is too coarse. But grinding and filing are the only
ways I could get some. None of the paint stores or art supply stores around here have aluminum powder. I tried the blender and aluminum foil in
alcohol idea from roguesci, but again, too coarse with my blender. 
I doubt anything is wrong with the ferrous oxide, as I made it by burning steel wool, so it should be fine.
[Edited on 25-2-2005 by Quince]
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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uber luminal
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quice, dont rely on what should be fine with what you think is ferrous oxide.
I ran a thermit the other night and it only partialy worked. I couldnt figure out why, until there was realization that I used FeO(Ferrous,(II)
instead of Fe3O4(triiron tetraoxide,(II,III) like I had calculated for. (both are black powders. people labeling things "Iron oxide" allowed
me to make an error.) Given the place I got it from, I thought it SHOULD have been the latter chemical.
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chemoleo
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A well-known trick to get reluctant thermites going (such as SiO2/Al, both powders) is to add sulphur. You get Al2S3 of course, too, but your reaction
then generates enough heat.
Anyway, many years ago I used Al shavings (about 1 mm thick , 0.5-2 cm long) with pigment Fe2O3, and this worked ok when several sparklers were tied
together. Obviously, the coarser, the more heat is required.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Quince
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Which iron oxide do I have then by burning steel wool? It's dark grey in color.
Is there some minimum amount necessary to ignite? I've been using at most a quarter teaspoon due to limited amount of ingredients.
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HNO3
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Quince- I was using copy machine toner. It says right on the label that it contained Iron Oxide... How could have I known?
Not sure if it applies to all you rotten europeans , but I got some aluminum
powder at a Hobby Lobby(tm). It was called powdered silver guilding or something like that.
\"In the beginning, God...\" Wait a minute, God doesn\'t exist!!!!!!!!!! \"OK, in the beginning, ummm, hydrogen...\" Wait a minute, what about the
laws of thermodynamics? \"OK, in the beginning, ummm.....UMMMMM, what\'s left to choose from?
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Quince
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Toner particles are coated with a polymer to make it stick to the paper when it goes through the heated roller.
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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Saerynide
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Chemoleo: Should the sulfur be added to the thermite or to some extra aluminum and placed on a divet of thermite?
"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to...
satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
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Quince
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From some searching it seems that both Fe2O3 (red) and Fe3O4 (black) can be used. I have the latter from burning steel wool, not just because of
color, but also because it's magnetic.
Adding HCL made some brown solution, so not all the Fe had burned, but most had, so I doubt any of the elemental iron could have really interfered.
So my problem must be with the aluminum.
I used a hand blender to pulverize aluminum foil in alcohol (30% water), and evaporated the liquid after filtration to remove larger particles. I
used the grey aluminum dust left for the thermite. It still didn't work, even with half a centimeter of sparkler inside the thermite.
ARRRGH!!!!! I don't know if the water in the alcohol caused the fine aluminum to oxidize or WTF is going on, but after so much effort I've
still failed to get a thermite reaction going.
Anyone in Canada willing to sell me some aluminum powder (I can pay with PayPal)? I've checked like ten stores and none carry it. Fuck, I
can't even buy permanganate anywhere, as the pharmacies haven't used it in years.
[Edited on 26-2-2005 by Quince]
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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Bert
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Quince
I can't even buy permanganate anywhere, as the pharmacies haven't used it in years.
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Don't look in pharmacies. Look at anyplace that sells water softeners/water treatment chemicals. Sears stores in the US still sell it for this
purpose, and it is fairly cheap.
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neutrino
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Quince
I don't know if the water in the alcohol caused the fine aluminum to oxidize |
That would be my guess.
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Saerynide
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I wonder, does it matter which end of the sparkler you stick into the thermite? Do you cut off the metal ends, and shove in that end (lighting the
fat end like you normally do)? Or do you stick in the fat end that you're normally supposed to light and instead light it from the thin end?
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Quince
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No man, I only made small amounts of thermite (half teaspoon), and it's impossible to stick the whole sparkler in. I split the sparkler
lengthwise and use a 1 cm long chunk of that.
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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Bert
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Half a teaspoon of thermite. Enough said. The reason you can't light it is because you can't find it. Also, unless you've got a very
good scale (accurate to a couple of milligrams), you are unlikely to have the ratios correct. Quince... I'd suggest you stop trying to burn
anything inside your parents home. I'd also suggest you back off from energetic materials for a bit and thoroughly study basic chemistry.
Boreing, I know. But just jumping in without a strong understanding of what can be done and how will either waste your time and resources or get you
hurt. If you haven't allready found the E&W forum, go there and do a LOT of reading before either trying any potentialy dangerous experiments or posting questions that have been endlessly asked and answered in the past.
[Edited on 4-3-2005 by Bert]
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