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mangoman667
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Acquisition of basic chemicals
Hi all,
I'm brand new on this forum as you can probably tell, and I've had my eye on making a lab for about 3 years now. I just acquired a decent assortment
of brand name glassware from craigslist (the very basic flasks, cylinders, and volumetrics). I've started collecting some very basic chemicals
(common metals, HCl, dilute H2SO4, 3% peroxide, pure isopropyl, etc, etc), but I'm kind of perplexed as to where to go next in stocking up my lab. My
question is: which stores are good for getting basic chemicals, and which chemicals can I easily manufacture using household or store bought
chemicals? Which are the most useful easily obtainable chemicals? I'm very eager to try my hand at some experiments, but I need to stock up first. Any
help would be appreciated! 
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hyfalcon
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I would suggest that you start by reading here:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3254
Instead of starting a new thread, search or just look what's available already on the site.
also, be sure to read this:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=19143
[Edited on 11-10-2014 by hyfalcon]
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mangoman667
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Right, sorry for posting so quickly. I just thought getting it from a real person would be more helpful. Anyways, I'll check out those threads, but
that still leaves my question of what you guys find very useful in your own labs, which I should probably get my hands on first. Hopefully someone can
point me in the right direction.
[Edited on 10-11-2014 by mangoman667]
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Bimseby
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It really depends on which country you are from. If you are from the USA, from what I have heard it should be a small problem acquiring some
chemicals. If you are from Europe I can give you some small tips as where to get some of it (mostly ebay). Most of all make sure to check your
country´s legislation first. As an example where I am from >12% H2O2 is illegal.
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mangoman667
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Yes, I live in the USA and from what I've heard, only some ridiculous precursors are strictly watched as well as some random elements such as sodium,
lithium, iodine, etc, but only for acquisition in pure form. As I'm typing this, I have a beaker of 3% H2O2 on low heat to concentrate to 30%. I'm
excited about doing an experiment I saw to get elemental iodine crystals out of iodine tincture. I know about eBay, but I'd like to keep expenses to a minimum. I'd much rather spend money on good glassware, which
I'll probably need soon given that I don't even have a condenser yet. 
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Bimseby
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Yes getting the glassware is the other half when starting your own lab. I have been lucky to make a deal with the place I study. I fix some of the
institutions equipment and get something in return (and lots of it  ) chemicals
can be cheap on ebay as well. I can get 25 kg 49% H2SO4 from ebay at a total price of 55 USD. When looking on ebay it is a matter of searching.
You might be lucky finding used pyrex I got a full distillation setup (3 L roundbottom, 500 mm vigreux and 400 mm graham) at the price of 80 USD, it
would normally cast 500 USD in my country. So buying used glassware is quite a good thing to do.
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Metacelsus
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Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667  | | I've started collecting some very basic chemicals (common metals, HCl, dilute H2SO4, 3% peroxide, pure isopropyl, etc, etc)
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Well, you actually don't have any bases in that list. You might want some NaOH. Bad puns aside, bases are common and useful reagents that you should
have.
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mangoman667
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Haha! That's a pretty good one! Where could I pick up sodium hydroxide apart
from ebay? I have tried to electrolyze it but I don't have a reliable power supply and batteries won't do. I've heard it is sold at Walmart or big box
stores in crystal form as drain cleaner, but I haven't come across any yet.
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Texium
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese | | Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667 | | I've started collecting some very basic chemicals (common metals, HCl, dilute H2SO4, 3% peroxide, pure isopropyl, etc, etc)
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Well, you actually don't have any bases in that list. You might want some NaOH. Bad puns aside, bases are common and useful reagents that you should
have. |
Dangit, I was about to make that pun and then I read your post!
Also, the Sciencemadness wiki (linked in my signature) has info about quite a few chemicals and information about where they can be bought, if they
can be.
[Edited on 10-11-2014 by zts16]
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xfusion44
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Some basic chemicals that I'm using:
NaHCO3 (baking soda)
HCl (hydrochloric acid)
NaOH (sodium hydroxide) - you can get about 30-40% solution in drain cleaners - make sure it says "sodium hydroxide"
Acetone (nail polisher, but I recommend technical grade if you can get it)
Ethanol 96%
CuSO4 (copper sulfate)
NaCl (table salt)
Sucrose (table sugar)
Glycerol (glycerine - sugar alcohol)
Citric acid
Acetic acid (vinegar)
H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide)
Sulfur (if you can get it)
Various metals
Carbon (graphite or charcoal)
HNO3 (maybe you can get it in farming stores or florist 50%)
H2O (water )
PS: you can make glacial acetic acid by boiling excess water from it, I tried it and it works fine - stupidly I needed to try It on tongue (it burns
alot in comparison with ordinary vinegar ).
[Edited on 11-10-2014 by xfusion44]
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mangoman667
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Hmm. I went to Walmart to look for more tincture of iodine since mine is running low. I found Providone Iodine with 1% available iodine, but that
seems really weak for extracting iodine especially since I spent the latter half of my day concentrating a mere 20mL of H2O2 for the purpose. I also
found a "decolorized" tincture of iodine which I picked up because I was curious, and now I'm betting it has no elemental iodine that can be dropped
 ... am I wrong? If there isn't any iodine to be had, can I get some decent
yields from the ammonium and potassium iodides that are in solution? I'm probably going to have to go back to my Russian pharmacy to get the real
stuff.
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Amos
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Really, if you want iodine that badly, the way to go is purchasing sodium or potassium iodide online and making it from that. Hopefully you intend to
use it for the proper purposes; I don't know why a beginner needs a bunch of iodine but hey, one of my first syntheses was nitrogen triiodide so maybe
that's your thing.
If you looked at the thread posted earlier about must-have reagents and where to find them, I am going to second zts16 and strongly suggest you look
up any chemicals you can't find on the sciencemadness wiki. It's written specifically for home chemists, so there's a good deal of information on
interesting ways to obtain reagents.
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mangoman667
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Well, in the spirit of amateur science, I'm just exploring my means of making various substances. The decolorized tincture I found is a strange one
indeed... 45% alcohol denatured with ammonia and containing ammonium iodide and potassium iodide. I'm going to try to reduce the iodine with
hydrochloric acid and 30% hydrogen peroxide that I concentrated yesterday. I'm also pretty sure that my local Walgreens sells 3% tincture of iodine,
so I might check that out first and maybe return the other one. As with everything, it's just for the sake of science! 
[Edited on 10-12-2014 by mangoman667]
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mangoman667
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So I just came upon another tricky substance, potassium nitrate. I think I'll have to synthesize my own nitric acid, but for that purpose I need
nitrate salts. I've hear potassium nitrate is the most popular, but where would be an easy place to get any nitrates here in the US for nitric acid
synthesis? I checked Ace Hardware and they didn't have any.
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hyfalcon
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Stump remover come to mind. Local farm store will have greenhouse grade KNO3.
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Amos
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| Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667 | | So I just came upon another tricky substance, potassium nitrate. I think I'll have to synthesize my own nitric acid, but for that purpose I need
nitrate salts. I've hear potassium nitrate is the most popular, but where would be an easy place to get any nitrates here in the US for nitric acid
synthesis? I checked Ace Hardware and they didn't have any. |
The instant cold packs sold at Walgreens pharmacies are high quality ammonium nitrate; You can use them and baking soda to make your own concentrated
ammonia and sodium nitrate. They're also really cheap compared to potassium nitrate from hardware stores.
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hyfalcon
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I bought a 50lb. bag of GG Hafia brand for $65.00 at the farm coop.
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mangoman667
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Failing to find potassium nitrate, I bought some of what I thought was almost pure sodium hydroxide in the form of Zep Crystal Heat Drain Opener.
Turns out it's just like the other ones--instead of being a white crystal, its a blue powder with small white beads mixed in... it says it contains sodium hydroxide, any ideas on how to purify?
Also I found 2% tincture at Walgreens for $4
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Amos
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| Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667 | Failing to find potassium nitrate, I bought some of what I thought was almost pure sodium hydroxide in the form of Zep Crystal Heat Drain Opener.
Turns out it's just like the other ones--instead of being a white crystal, its a blue powder with small white beads mixed in... it says it contains sodium hydroxide, any ideas on how to purify?
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Oh dear... I'm so, so sorry. That stuff is the absolute worst; as soon as it starts to absorb moisture from the air, it reacts with the aluminum bits
in it. The large white beads are pure sodium nitrate; I was able to separate that out with a sieve, which I would suggest, but the actual sodium
hydroxide is toast. Brands that are 100% sodium hydroxide cost more, and they usually advertise that they are 100% caustic lye, it makes people more
likely to buy their product. Anything that doesn't say it isn't worth your time. Also, heed these words: If you are able to obtain calcium
hydroxide(often sold as hydrated lime or slaked lime, look in Home Depot, Lowes, or construction stores) which is useful on its own, you can use that
and easily obtainable sodium carbonate to make your own sodium hydroxide, and it's sooo much cheaper that way. 1 lb. of NaOH drain cleaner at Lowes
was $16, if that's reason enough to make it instead of buying.
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mangoman667
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See, these are the tricks I'd like to know and no chemical list will give me.
Thanks for that, and what I might do is sieve off like 30 grams of the sodium nitrate since I need nitrates for nitric acid and return the damn thing
to Lowe's. Its a 2 pound bottle, so it won't make that much of a difference, but it cost me $8! For that price I can buy a sack of hydrated lime like
you said.
| Quote: |
Is the goal to have a stocked lab, or is the approach to do some chemistry? |
The goal is to start my own decently stocked lab, and of course start synthesizing things! My ultimate goal is to explore the world of chemistry through practice. I've done more than enough reading and I'd like to finally get out
there and see and do everything I've read about. My thought process is just about the same as yours: "Hey, that looks like a cool
(synthesis/reduction/etc)! What do I need to do it?" And part of the answer almost always lies within the borders of the common chemicals I'm seeking.
I'm just trying to save trips to the stores every time I want to do another experiment, and learn a thing or two in the process. I thought this forum
of all places would understand my interest best.
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Texium
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I
actually found some sold at my local Lowes for $12 for 2 pounds. I guess it's a regionally dependent thing?
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Liara_Tsoni
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DeboraLabs and Dr Synthetic or whatever the name was are some decent online stores where you can buy resources. Also you can ask chemical departments
at schools in your area and search for chemical stores. It's easier than it seems actually
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Amos
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Mango, I also want to caution you with regards to shopping from online chemical sellers. A lot of them will completely rip you off simply because they
assume people doing fine analytical work will pay pretty much anything for their reagents. Be sure to check many different sellers and look for
technical grades if possible; It's unlikely that you need to pay the extra money for .01% more purity.
| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | I actually found some sold at my local Lowes for $12 for 2 pounds. I guess it's a regionally dependent thing? |
Maybe the brand was different. I was stupid with my money when I first started chemistry, so I'm not surprised that I purchased such a grossly
overpriced chemical.
[Edited on 10-13-2014 by No Tears Only Dreams Now]
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Texium
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| Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now | | Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | I actually found some sold at my local Lowes for $12 for 2 pounds. I guess it's a regionally dependent thing? |
Maybe the brand was different. I was stupid with my money when I first started chemistry, so I'm not surprised that I purchased such a grossly
overpriced chemical. |
The brand that I bought was Roebic. It came in a black plastic bottle with a red lid.
As you described in an earlier post, it did claim to be "100% Lye." It must be pretty pure, as I haven't made any attempts to purify it but it hasn't
caused me any problems.
[Edited on 10-13-2014 by zts16]
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Amos
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| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now | | Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | I actually found some sold at my local Lowes for $12 for 2 pounds. I guess it's a regionally dependent thing? |
Maybe the brand was different. I was stupid with my money when I first started chemistry, so I'm not surprised that I purchased such a grossly
overpriced chemical. |
The brand that I bought was Roebic. It came in a black plastic bottle with a red lid.
As you described in an earlier post, it did claim to be "100% Lye." It must be pretty pure, as I haven't made any attempts to purify it but it hasn't
caused me any problems.
[Edited on 10-13-2014 by zts16] |
Dang it, that's the exact same as mine! And I think I lied, it actually is 2 lbs, I think. But yeah, it's good stuff.
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