| Pages:
1
2 |
gdflp
Super Moderator
Posts: 1320
Registered: 14-2-2014
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Staring at code
|
|
Theoretically yes. However, if you are buying tons of precursors to these chemicals, or drugs, on sites like eBay, the DEA can get a search warrant
and knock on your front door. Especially if the chemicals are on that list. And eBay is all too happy to give your address and buying history to
them.
|
|
|
DubaiAmateurRocketry
National Hazard
Posts: 841
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: LA, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: In research
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  | | Theoretically yes. However, if you are buying tons of precursors to these chemicals, or drugs, on sites like eBay, the DEA can get a search warrant
and knock on your front door. Especially if the chemicals are on that list. And eBay is all too happy to give your address and buying history to
them. |
Is there a legal way to obtain chemicals on that list? any form of certificate etc? acetic anhydride and sulfuric acid are just too useful.
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Also happy to freeze any funds you have in your PP account, but strangely keep accepting any Incoming money.
Ebay/PayPal *have* to comply - they are playing in the Big Game, and will do anything to you and me so they can keep playing.
|
|
|
gdflp
Super Moderator
Posts: 1320
Registered: 14-2-2014
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Staring at code
|
|
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Any List I chemicals will cause the DEA to come knocking. List II and SS are less restricted, but obviously
if you're going down the list buying every single one in a short amount of time it will attract some suspicion.
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
As others have said, list 1 chemicals will attract attention but
they do have a lower limit of concern. Ie. any amount over the
minimum threshold results in the chemical supplier notifying the DEA.
As for manufacturing, making more than the threshold amount would
require a license. On the other hand it is only illegal to possess those
chemicals if they were obtained fraudulently or if you intend to make a
scheduled substance. However, possessing some of those chemicals
will be used as evidence of your intent to manufacture a scheduled
substance. The list 2 chemicals don't attract as much attention and
the thresholds are reasonable. It isn't a crime to buy chemicals.
It is a crime to make drugs or lie while buying them. And selling them
does require you to register with the DEA if they are listed. And
that means even if you never sell over the listing threshold.
Which as I previously said for some substances is 0kg.
|
|
|
Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
Posts: 1071
Registered: 26-9-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
As above, yes. Aren't you in Dubai, though? You have entirely different laws.
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
As a 100% hypothetical example, let's I want to synthesize Penicillin G for purely personal research and had absolutely no intention of it ever
leaving the lab. Penicillin G can be made form phenylacetic acid which is on the list. Could I make phenylacetic acid?
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Steam | | As a 100% hypothetical example, let's I want to synthesize Penicillin G for purely personal research and had absolutely no intention of it ever
leaving the lab. Penicillin G can be made form phenylacetic acid which is on the list. Could I make phenylacetic acid? |
In theory yes you can make it. And if the quantity is very small and you
have good notes attesting to your interest in Penicillin G and if you lack
any notes regarding other uses then you are probably safe-ish. You
may want to put a lawyer on retainer if you ever searched the web
for anything remotely illegal though. Not to discourage you but if caught
with a list 1 chemical you need to have pretty good evidence that you
are not guilty of cookery.
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
Probably a good idea for me to stay away from any list 1 for a while considering I wrote a school newspaper article on Breaking Bad last month!
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
DubaiAmateurRocketry
National Hazard
Posts: 841
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: LA, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: In research
|
|
Yes, I will be moving to US soon, and I am really worried what If I am caught having chemicals or I can not find the suppliers.
|
|
|
gdflp
Super Moderator
Posts: 1320
Registered: 14-2-2014
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Staring at code
|
|
It might be legal to have a chemical in the US. However, you might have some serious issues importing this stuff. Especially because I see you are
very active in EM, lots of your stuff might not be importable to the US. I would check it out this page http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr_reports/chemicals/in... for info about the List I and II stuff. Good Luck!
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
Unfortunately for you it will be illegal to manufacture energetics until you have a permanent resident visa and the correct explosives license. Given
your country of residence and posting history here it would not be advisable to pursue much chemistry until your paperwork is complete and you have an
appropriate magazine. Dept of Homeland Security is likely to have you on a watch list.
Sorry to be a kill joy but people from the middle east dont get equal rights in the land of the free. Technically it is legal for permanent residents
and citizens to manufacture energetics for personal use without a license but you still have to have a magazine and you need a license to transport
them. Given your country of residence assume that personal use isn't going to cut it with DHS.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Sadly true, at least in the explosives BUSINESS. BATFE CAN give letters of clearance as an explosives handler for non US citizens- But only permanent
residents are likely to ever get one.
See question #25:
Given the huge number of undergraduate foreign students in US institutions taking organic chem and likely interested in synthesis of energetics- Could
some of our academic members give the straight dope on this? Is there a blanket license for the department/professor, and the students work under it?
Or is it just not do-able for someone on a student visa at all?
My knowledge is completely on the commercial end of EM.
If you're a grad student or researcher in an explosives related field, you MIGHT just get a variance if your Prof. or Dept. head cares to ask on your
behalf?
[Edited on 9-4-2014 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
DubaiAmateurRocketry
National Hazard
Posts: 841
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: LA, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: In research
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by macckone |
Unfortunately for you it will be illegal to manufacture energetics until you have a permanent resident visa and the correct explosives license. Given
your country of residence and posting history here it would not be advisable to pursue much chemistry until your paperwork is complete and you have an
appropriate magazine. Dept of Homeland Security is likely to have you on a watch list.
Sorry to be a kill joy but people from the middle east dont get equal rights in the land of the free. Technically it is legal for permanent residents
and citizens to manufacture energetics for personal use without a license but you still have to have a magazine and you need a license to transport
them. Given your country of residence assume that personal use isn't going to cut it with DHS. |
Right, but I am not actually from middle east. Our team consists of several members and there are several people on this account, I am asian(other
posts might come from someone else) and I am a permanent US resident (my family got the green card because of my dad's company). Dubai is not
dangerous at all! I have been living here for 10 years, police arrive in lightning speed for anything, and therefore its crime rate makes it one of
the safest city in the world. I never saw any crime here and everyone here is nice. However in other countries in the middle east, its a different
story.
How do you obtain the licence to manufacture explosives? I am not really interested in explosives's explosive property and I am more into their use
for advanced solid propellants. The binder will make the overall sensitivity more friendly. I obviously won't synthesize peroxides, and yes I might
synthesize RDX etc maybe for a burn rate comparison for different formulations with others so I think I do need that licence.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Please, have your various members who wish to post here GET THEIR OWN ACCOUNTS.
I was puzzled as to why "DubaiAmateurRocketry" varied so much in tone and background knowledge.
US Explosives Laws- Please read pp. 13-59 for starters
As far as a US explosives license, you fill out a form and give BATFE a fee ($200.00 for most license types), they will come inspect your proposed
storage magazine, if your application is for a license type requiring one- Then you are issued a license if everything is found to be proper and to
spec.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry |
Right, but I am not actually from middle east. Our team consists of several members and there are several people on this account, I am asian(other
posts might come from someone else) and I am a permanent US resident (my family got the green card because of my dad's company). Dubai is not
dangerous at all! I have been living here for 10 years, police arrive in lightning speed for anything, and therefore its crime rate makes it one of
the safest city in the world. I never saw any crime here and everyone here is nice. However in other countries in the middle east, its a different
story.
How do you obtain the licence to manufacture explosives? I am not really interested in explosives's explosive property and I am more into their use
for advanced solid propellants. The binder will make the overall sensitivity more friendly. I obviously won't synthesize peroxides, and yes I might
synthesize RDX etc maybe for a burn rate comparison for different formulations with others so I think I do need that licence. |
To the DHS simply traveling to the middle east is sufficient to get you
added to the watch list. They are not as discriminating as many
would like. As a permanent resident, you should be able to get an
explosives permit for research purposed on advanced rocket propellants.
You should join and participate in the National Rocketry Association.
Once you have a high power rocketry level 3 license, you should have
no problem getting the license with support of your local NRA (not to
be confused with the National Rifle Association).
[Edited on 10-4-2014 by macckone]
|
|
|
Ax165Xj
Harmless
Posts: 25
Registered: 31-5-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I was on ebay the other day and saw someone from Ukraine selling Chloral Hydrate and para-methoxy P2NP along with various other suspicious chems. I
can't imagine they'll last too long on there.
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
But laws regarding sale of chemicals in Ukraine may be different than in the states...
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
packetforger
Harmless
Posts: 48
Registered: 21-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Condensing
|
|
A lot of the "good" suppliers (read as: suppliers who happily sold anything to amateur chemists) come from the former Soviet bloc. countries. Keten,
Czort, etc. were all from that part of the world, and had solid reputations amongst European chemists at least for being reliable. They did, however,
vary a bit in compliance with shipping regulations - often no warning labels on boxes, etc. Same deal with some Chinese suppliers, who would happily
relabel materials if import problems were as much as alluded to.
|
|
|
Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1681
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline
Mood: dangerously practical
|
|
i recall seeing massive traffic and interest on the sodium hydride thread
which is not that easy to get hold of, but they sent shittonnes of it, although many kg's of it was confiscated at canadian borders
|
|
|
neptunium
National Hazard
Posts: 990
Registered: 12-12-2011
Location: between Uranium and Plutonium
Member Is Offline
|
|
what about nature? minerals and plants can provide alot of various chemicals given a proper lab and a few basic chemicals...yes you might have to
travel to mine sites and know about ore and rocks and plants and flowers but isnt that the purpose of science and this site? and isnt that what a
curious mind is about?
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
