Morgan
International Hazard
Posts: 1708
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Free coal ash
I thought this was questionable.
"Bingo. Coal burning power plants in the Midwest give away an estimated quarter-million tons of coal ash every year. That’s at least three times the
size of the big spill in North Carolina. And for that spill, Duke Energy is facing a billion-dollar cleanup tab. While instead in the Midwest, you
haul the coal ash away and you spill it for free."
http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.html?programID=14-P13-0001...
|
|
|
Etaoin Shrdlu
National Hazard
Posts: 724
Registered: 25-12-2013
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Insufferable
|
|
So what's your take on this?
Mine is that governments spread bottom ash on roads, which is pretty well locked into a hard matrix, and generally has heavy metal levels not much
higher than the surrounding soil. Duke Energy pumped an estimated 99,000 tons of unfiltered particulate matter, in addition to water which had been
leaching chemicals from ten times that amount of waste, out of their toxic holding ponds directly into one river. That would have
been a problem even if it was ordinary soil. These are two very different scenarios.
|
|
|
Morgan
International Hazard
Posts: 1708
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
A few tidbits I dug up in my quest to learn more.
What is coal ash and how can it be used?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKlJElb2Be0
Coal Ash: 130 Million Tons of Waste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PYexB76KIQ
|
|
|
Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1681
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline
Mood: dangerously practical
|
|
imagine how much acetone that could be made into if the CaCO3 in the ash would be used to make calcium acetate then followed by dry destillation..
|
|
|
phlogiston
International Hazard
Posts: 1379
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: Neon Thorium Erbium Lanthanum Neodymium Sulphur
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
Why imagine if you are a nerd?
Ash = approx 40% calcium carbonate. Yield of reaction about 83%
0.25*10<sup>6</sup> tonnes ash --> 0.1*10<sup>6</sup> tonnes CaCO<sub>3</sub> = 632*10<sup>6</sup>
moles --> 524*10<sup>6</sup> moles acetone --> 30461 tonnes of aceton, or about 38500000 liters
Or about enough to fill my towns swimming pool 12 times over.
The same amount of coal ash also contains about 1.25 gram of radium. A well functioning nuclear plant releases less radiactive isotopes in the
environment than a coal plant.
[Edited on 24-3-2014 by phlogiston]
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
|
|
forgottenpassword
Hazard to Others
Posts: 374
Registered: 12-12-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I'm sure it wouldn't be economical to convert it into acetone.
|
|
|
Morgan
International Hazard
Posts: 1708
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I was trying to get a feel for what they do with coal ash and can list a few items now. For the home it is used in roofing shingles, cement,
carpeting, countertops, wallboard, paint, and bowling balls. And for roads, embankments, as well as an additive to crop soils.
Nebraska has an unusual use for coal ash.
"On an infrequent basis, the Nebraska Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) has applied limited amounts of coal bottom ash to portions of the Platte
River in late winter. The purpose of the applications is to promote gradual melting and prevent ice jams and flooding."
"Analysis of the bottom ash used in this process indicates that the material is mostly carbon, with what is determined to be an insignificant amount
of metals and other constituents."
http://www.deq.state.ne.us/Publica.nsf/pages/11-008
Location, location, location ...
"For months, train cars lined up to be loaded with sludge dredged from the river. The sludge was then carted down to Uniontown, Alabama, a mostly
poor, mostly black county, where an enterprising commissioner decided that taking the waste was an economic opportunity. The county ended up taking
about 4 million tons of it and dumped it in a landfill—for the price of just $4 million."
"It is not unusual that a place like Uniontown ended up with the Kingston waste: Coal ash is almost always dumped in communities that don’t have the
political or financial muscle to reject becoming other communities’ trashcans. According to a 2012 report, of the nearly six million Americans who
live within three miles of a coal-fired power plant, 39 percent are minority, and the average per capita income is $18,400."
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/03/22/potential-...
Exterior trim.
http://www.boralamerica.com/Trim/About/boral-truexterior%C2%...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jucf__occE
[Edited on 24-3-2014 by Morgan]
|
|
|
roXefeller
Hazard to Others
Posts: 463
Registered: 9-9-2013
Location: 13 Colonies
Member Is Offline
Mood: 220 221 whatever it takes
|
|
Even if it was economical to convert to acetone, it is the remaining portions of these reclamation works that make it uneconomical. Phosphorus mines
for example have loads of mineral rich tailings, but because they have elevated amounts of radium and whatnot, the tailings become a tarbaby. If you
take them from the mining company for your use you then need to find someone dumber than you to take what remains because of the cost associated with
legal disposal. The process for uranium mining (which has terrible tailings consisting of decay products) is trying to move towards in situ mining,
where the uranium commodity is the only thing to come up from the ground and the tailings stay below in the seam.
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by roXefeller  |
Even if it was economical to convert to acetone, it is the remaining portions of these reclamation works that make it uneconomical. Phosphorus mines
for example have loads of mineral rich tailings, but because they have elevated amounts of radium and whatnot, the tailings become a tarbaby. If you
take them from the mining company for your use you then need to find someone dumber than you to take what remains because of the cost associated with
legal disposal. The process for uranium mining (which has terrible tailings consisting of decay products) is trying to move towards in situ mining,
where the uranium commodity is the only thing to come up from the ground and the tailings stay below in the seam. |
Very true, I used to live in Florida where they would have huge mounds of slightly radioactive dirt left over from the phosphorus mines. These mounds
cost millions to maintain and took up thousands of acres of land. It seams silly to me why they cant push it back into the ground for that's where it
came from originally!
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
phlogiston
International Hazard
Posts: 1379
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: Neon Thorium Erbium Lanthanum Neodymium Sulphur
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
Although it may technically be doable it may turn out to be a far more expensive solution.
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
|
|
Morgan
International Hazard
Posts: 1708
Registered: 28-12-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Steam | | Quote: Originally posted by roXefeller |
Even if it was economical to convert to acetone, it is the remaining portions of these reclamation works that make it uneconomical. Phosphorus mines
for example have loads of mineral rich tailings, but because they have elevated amounts of radium and whatnot, the tailings become a tarbaby. If you
take them from the mining company for your use you then need to find someone dumber than you to take what remains because of the cost associated with
legal disposal. The process for uranium mining (which has terrible tailings consisting of decay products) is trying to move towards in situ mining,
where the uranium commodity is the only thing to come up from the ground and the tailings stay below in the seam. |
Very true, I used to live in Florida where they would have huge mounds of slightly radioactive dirt left over from the phosphorus mines. These mounds
cost millions to maintain and took up thousands of acres of land. It seams silly to me why they cant push it back into the ground for that's where it
came from originally! |
You've also got fluoride pollution to contend with in the phosphate industry. In some ways it reminds me of the coal ash scenario, where we will
sprinkle coal ash on icy roads or as with Nebraska, sprinkle it on ice jams in the Platte River, anything to get rid of a pollutant or something many
would prefer not to have in their own backyard.
"Thus, while US industry continues to satisfy its growing demand for high-grade fluoride chemicals by importing calcium fluoride from abroad
(primarily from Mexico, China, and South Africa), the phosphate industry continues dumping large volumes of fluoride into the acidic wastewater ponds
that lie at the top of the mountainous waste piles which surround the industry."
"Of course, not all of the phosphate industry’s fluoride waste is disposed of in the ponds. As noted earlier, the phosphate industry has found at
least one regular consumer of its silicofluorides: municipal water-treatment facilities. According to recent estimates, the phosphate industry sells
approximately 200,000 tons of silicofluorides (hydrofluorosilicic acid & sodium silicofluoride) to US communities each year for use as a water
fluoridation agent (Coplan & Masters 2001)."
"Another EPA official, Dr. J. William Hirzy, the current Senior Vice-President of EPA Headquarters Union, recently expressed a different view on the
matter. According to Hirzy:"
“If this stuff gets out into the air, it’s a pollutant; if it gets into the river, it’s a pollutant; if it gets into the lake it’s a
pollutant; but if it goes right into your drinking water system, it’s not a pollutant. That’s amazing… There’s got to be a better way to
manage this stuff.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViNNIwmzTzI#t=24m56s
|
|
|
kecskesajt
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 7-12-2014
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Also it can be used to for cleaning.The ash contains Na2CO3,K2CO3 wich is used as washing soda/potash.And neutralise some nitrated shits.
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5129
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat | | imagine how much acetone that could be made into if the CaCO3 in the ash would be used to make calcium acetate then followed by dry destillation..
|
I may be mistaken, but I think that the answer in principle is
"exactly as much as you can make with a teaspoonful".
Because I can take that spoonful, add acetic acid, pyrolyse it to get the acetone, heat the resulting "ash" in air and reform calcium carbonate which
I can react with acetic acid...
and so on.
If you want to be petty, I can even recycle the CO2 liberated from the dissolution, to make the pyrolysed calcium compounds back into the carbonate.
Since you can recycle the calcium carbonate indefinitely, there's no (theoretical) limit to how much acetone you could make.
You are likely to run out of vinegar first.
|
|
|
Amos
International Hazard
Posts: 1406
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Yes
Member Is Offline
Mood: No
|
|
40% calcium carbonate might fly for wood ash, but coal ash contains much less. There's much more silica and alumina in there, which is disappointing.
|
|
|
subsecret
Hazard to Others
Posts: 424
Registered: 8-6-2013
Location: NW SC, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Human Sadness - Julian Casablancas & the Voidz
|
|
Spreading it under asphalt roads would be a good idea, as they already paint the lines with lead chromate/carbonate. The ash could also be crushed and
added to concrete, possibly to replace the sand in the mixture.
Fear is what you get when caution wasn't enough.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
