DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4355
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
High Pressures
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131219142138.ht...
Apparently, at a few thousand atmospheres, one can make compounds like Na3Cl and NaCl3. Cool.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
Bot0nist
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Streching my cotyledons.
|
|
That is really cool. I recently saw a bit on tv that talked about how hydrogen will form a metallic allotrope I guess is the word, using very high
pressures and temperatures with lasers of some form. Ill search around for a link.
[Edited on 21-12-2013 by Bot0nist]
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Good find, DA!
|
|
|
turd
National Hazard
Posts: 800
Registered: 5-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
And Na becomes non-metallic:
http://phys.org/news156104532.html
These kind of things are not really news and certainly not "the beginning of a revolution in chemistry". Interesting chemistry but terrible article.
|
|
|
bismuthate
National Hazard
Posts: 803
Registered: 28-9-2013
Location: the island of stability
Member Is Offline
Mood: self reacting
|
|
That makes me wonder, if NaCl3 exists how about NaBr3 or Na2O3 or any other compounds of the like?
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by turd  | | These kind of things are not really news and certainly not "the beginning of a revolution in chemistry". Interesting chemistry but terrible article.
|
It's not a 'terrible' article. The term 'revolution' is over-used in general but other than that it's a good read for a digest.
|
|
|
turd
National Hazard
Posts: 800
Registered: 5-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well, de gustibus non est disputandum. But this is one of the worst pieces of science journalism that I have ever seen - and that means something.
Compounds that violate text book rules are made all the time. Stable radicals, 17e- complexes, etc. Likewise two-dimensional
conductors and layered structures are a dime a dozen. If you apply exotic conditions you will get exotic materials, duh. I'm superficially familiar
with this group's work since there is a small high-pressure hype going on at the moment and think it is pretty cool. But this article actually made me
lose some respect for them (I hope the hysteric hyperbole was the work of the "journalist").
|
|
|
Eddygp
National Hazard
Posts: 858
Registered: 31-3-2012
Location: University of York, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organometallic
|
|
You could apply this to many things, not only "new" chemical compounds, but maybe allotropes and alloys made up of metallic-allotrope non-metals (at
high pressures), such as H, and metals. You could study the way it decomposed when depressurising the whole "alloy" afterwards, as it would probably
not stay in place, but fall like powder while the H2 escaped as a gas.
Some allotropes form at different pressures and temperatures. I have always wanted to answer a question: how do you know that there isn't an infinite
number of, say, tellurium allotropes, if you have never tested every single temp/pressure combination? Not a fan of inductivism.
there may be bugs in gfind
[ˌɛdidʒiˈpiː] IPA pronunciation for my Username |
|
|
Random
International Hazard
Posts: 1120
Registered: 7-5-2010
Location: In ur closet
Member Is Offline
Mood: Energetic
|
|
This makes me wonder as some gasses become metals and things like these compounds, the chemistry we know usually is only related to our environment.
Somewhere far away in the universe in different conditions there may be totally different chemistry properties alltogether.
|
|
|
O. Ruff
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 21-12-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: :| <-- Serious Face
|
|
Like blogfast and turd, what upset me about this article was that it was too far-reaching in its conclusion. The article seemed to be so hyped-up
about, IMHO, something that can already be explained through the current theory.
Now this article, which describes a significant increase in reaction rate of methanol at low T, I find very interesting: http://tinyurl.com/nkaocj4
"We do not belong to this material world that science constructs for us. We are not in it; we are outside. We are only spectators." -- Erwin
Schroedinger
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Turd:
Every time you mention this article it gets worse! Maybe your own confirmation bias is at work? 
|
|
|
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
Posts: 1547
Registered: 26-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fluorine radical
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | That is really cool. I recently saw a bit on tv that talked about how hydrogen will form a metallic allotrope I guess is the word, using very high
pressures and temperatures with lasers of some form. Ill search around for a link.
[Edited on 21-12-2013 by Bot0nist] |
Hydrogen acts a lot like a metal in compounds also.
|
|
|
mayko
International Hazard
Posts: 1218
Registered: 17-1-2013
Location: Carrboro, NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: anomalous (Euclid class)
|
|
ChemNews: New Salt Compounds Challenge the Foundation of Chemistry
| Quote: |
"I think this work is the beginning of a revolution in chemistry," Oganov says. "We found, at low pressures achievable in the lab, perfectly stable
compounds that contradict the classical rules of chemistry. If you apply the rather modest pressure of 200,000 atmospheres -- for comparison purposes,
the pressure at the center of the Earth is 3.6 million atmospheres -- everything we know from chemistry textbooks falls apart."
|
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131219142138.ht...
I'm not an expert on high pressure engineering, but it seems like this is an area where home scientists could have a lot to contribute ... benign,
commonplace substances under extreme, but not ludicrous conditions.
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Someone beat you to it:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=28064
|
|
|
bfesser
|
Threads Merged
22-12-2013 at 06:31 |
Mesa
Hazard to Others
Posts: 264
Registered: 2-7-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The transparent Sodium was interesting... They never define it as a solid/liquid though.
The NaCl3/Na2O3/etc. salts probably wont have any relevance to me outside of theory for at least the next decade, hence not so interesting. 
I wonder if NaH(>2) is possible/stable though...
|
|
|
Brain&Force
Hazard to Lanthanides
Posts: 1302
Registered: 13-11-2013
Location: UW-Madison
Member Is Offline
Mood: Incommensurately modulated
|
|
Is there any information on the possible structure of the compounds? I wonder if the ion Cl3- can make stable compounds at room
temperature in aqueous solution or in air. Possibly with a large cation like Cs.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4355
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force | | Is there any information on the possible structure of the compounds? I wonder if the ion Cl3- can make stable compounds at room
temperature in aqueous solution or in air. Possibly with a large cation like Cs. |
The link does show the crystal structure of NaCl3. It contains three Cl2 ions (of whatever charge) and two Na ions. It's not
analogous to the well-known KI3.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
