DubaiAmateurRocketry
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RDX subsitudes ?
RDX is cheap, easy to make, but it is just a little bit too sensitive. So i would want good performance insensitive explosives.
so is there any potential explosives which is also cheap to make, however less sensitive, while giving a performance not too inferior or better than
RDX ?
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Dany
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Well there are many option but one interesting explosive that is cheap with performance equal to CL-20 (@TMD) and sensitivity in the order of that of
TNT is TKX-50.
see my old post for the synthesis of TKX-50 (this explosive is synthesized by Klapotke et al. in Germany)
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=25484&...
Dany.
[Edited on 29-9-2013 by Dany]
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Pulverulescent
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| Quote: | | RDX is cheap, easy to make, but it is just a little bit too sensitive. |
You could try desensitising it with a little castor oil?
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Quote: Originally posted by Pulverulescent  | | Quote: | | RDX is cheap, easy to make, but it is just a little bit too sensitive. |
You could try desensitising it with a little castor oil? |
Yes, but i am looking for something that is already insensitive in the first place.
Thank you for your suggestion though.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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In that paper you mentioned, i also found the intermediate compound to synthesis TKX50, containing two azide groups also interesting, but i can not
figure out what the name is.
Also surprised that the tetrazole groups are stable.
this thing looks interesting, except that the carbon is not burned.
Do you have any other suggestions ?
[Edited on 29-9-2013 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]
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Dany
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4,10-Dinitro-4,10-diaza-2,6,8,12-tetraoxaisowurtzitane (TEX) is another low sensitivity high explosive having Dcj=8665 m/s and
exceptionally high crystal density d=1.99 g/cm3 [1]. TEX has been synthesized by an old member in this forum (Axt). you will find the
attach of his synthesis below together with the original synthesis of TEX published in 1991 (part 1 & 2) [2,3].
[1] Organic Chemistry of Explosives, Jai Prakash Agrawal & Robert Hodgson.
[2] Vayalakkavoor T. Ramakrishnan, Murugappa Vedachalam, Joseph H. Boyer, Dense compounds of C, H, N, and O atoms: Nitramine derivatives of diimino-
and dioxodecahydro-1 h,5h-diimidazo-[4,5-b:4′,5′-e]pyrazine, Heteroat. Chem., 313-318, 2(2), 1991 (part
I)
[3] Vayalakkavoor T. Ramakrishnan, Murugappa Vedachalam, Joseph H. Boyer, Dense compounds of C, H, N, and O atoms: II [1]. Nitramine and nitrosamine
derivatives of 2-oxo- and 2-iminooctahydroimidazo-[4,5-d]imidazole, Heteroat. Chem., 669-673, 2(6), 1991 (part II)
Attachment: TEX by Axt.pdf (141kB)
This file has been downloaded 495 times
Attachment: Part I.pdf (518kB)
This file has been downloaded 454 times
Attachment: Part II.pdf (428kB)
This file has been downloaded 499 times
Dany.
[Edited on 29-9-2013 by Dany]
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Dany
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@ DubaiAmateurRocketry
the name of the compound containing two azide group is oxalohydroximoyl diazide. It's synthesis begin from oxalohydroximoyl dichloride and is
described in [1].
[1] Tselinskii, I. V.; Mel'nikova, S. F.; Romanova, T. V., Synthesis and Reactivity of Carbohydroximoyl Azides: I. Aliphatic and Aromatic
Carbohydroximoyl Azides and 5-Substituted 1-Hydroxytetrazoles Based Thereon, Zhurnal Organicheskoi Khimii, 430-436, 37,
2001.
Dany.
Attachment: Synthesis of oxalohydroximoyl diazide .pdf (68kB)
This file has been downloaded 779 times
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Xfactor
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Isn't RDX fairly expensive to make? I assumed that 98% nitric acid is not cheap or simple to get.
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Dany
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You may also be interested in NEST-1
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=25480&...
Dany.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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http://www.chemistryviews.org/details/ezine/2548181/New_High...
I also found this, if the R is subsituted by NO2 , ONO2 it is also looks very energetic. Or N3 again lol
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Dany
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This is the original article. It is also interesting to make the 1,2,3 triazol-N-oxide derivatives in order to increase crystal density (with unknown
consequence on thermal and shock sensitivity of the resultant compounds). You can notice that this compounds is similar to the structure of the well
known high explosive benzotrifuroxan (BTF) except that BTF has cyclohexane ring instead of benzen ring in the new compound described in the paper.
Dany.
Attachment: Tris(triazolo)benzene and Its Derivatives.pdf (576kB)
This file has been downloaded 899 times
[Edited on 29-9-2013 by Dany]
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golfpro
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How is RDX cheap?
11 grams of Pure NO2 free nitric acid is needed for 1 gram of RDX.
Are you using a different method?
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Microtek
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| Quote: |
How is RDX cheap? 11 grams of Pure NO2 free nitric acid is needed for 1 gram of RDX. |
Remember we are talking to someone who wants to produce kilogram amounts of dinitramide. He's working on another budget than the rest of us.
NEST-1 is by no stretch of the imagination insensitive, but how about NTO? Also, you could try some of the BDNENA salts from the other article Dany
brought to our attention (I'm working on those).
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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| Quote: Originally posted by Microtek |
| Quote: |
How is RDX cheap? 11 grams of Pure NO2 free nitric acid is needed for 1 gram of RDX. |
Remember we are talking to someone who wants to produce kilogram amounts of dinitramide. He's working on another budget than the rest of us.
NEST-1 is by no stretch of the imagination insensitive, but how about NTO? Also, you could try some of the BDNENA salts from the other article Dany
brought to our attention (I'm working on those). |
can i have a BDNENA link that you mentioned Dany posted ? Dany seems to know a lot in these topics.
thank you
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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| Quote: Originally posted by Dany |
This is the original article. It is also interesting to make the 1,2,3 triazol-N-oxide derivatives in order to increase crystal density (with unknown
consequence on thermal and shock sensitivity of the resultant compounds). You can notice that this compounds is similar to the structure of the well
known high explosive benzotrifuroxan (BTF) except that BTF has cyclohexane ring instead of benzen ring in the new compound described in the paper.
Dany.
[Edited on 29-9-2013 by Dany] |
http://www.cecd.umd.edu/documents/presentations/synthesis-wo...
When R is Cl, although none of the carbon is burned, the hof is already 3 times higher than CL-20
So The NO2, N(NO2), or C(NO2)3 cations subsituted might result in a really powerful explosive where i expect the latter ones to have a high vod, maybe
around 10k
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