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vulture
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methyl nitrate
Methylnitrate, CH3NO3, is the nitric acid ester of methanol.
Volatile liquid, D 1,2075, boiling point: 64,6C.
Deflagrates at 150C.
I was wondering if anybody ever prepared this compound and/or knew a good synthesis.
Safety warnings and more data are also welcome as usual.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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a_bab
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I never tried it although I may sometime. I know that the headache you can get from it is like a flash (almost instant pain if smelled). It's
very sensitive (much more that NG) and very volatile also. I colected some info during the past years about it in a single text file. I don't
have the references, but the info seems to be reliable.
Attachment: myrol.txt (17kB)
This file has been downloaded 4714 times
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vulture
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I doubt the information about it exploding at the boiling point. My chemistry encyclopedia says 150C as the decomposition point and this: http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv2p0412 states it can be distilled when properly neutralized.
a_bab, your text was very helpful.
8000m/s aint nothing to sneeze at...
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Madog
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i want to make it but i need to get some methanol, ugh.
i do have a kinda cool file that has some info, itsn ot too scientific, its one of those improvised explosive PDF things, you know what i mean, its of
that sort.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Distillation is really a hell and could cause severe explosions.
The fact they say it can explode at boiling point is that it often occure while distillating...aside with HNO3 and NOx fumes.
The use of urea nitrate is advised like in isopropanol nitrate from IP and 70% dillution HNO3.
I personnally would avoid as much as possible distillation (even under vaccuum)...it would be too bad to loose distillator, glassware and vaccuum
pump.
50g to make 65g primary HE? Crazy....never more than a few grams at the time.
A friend of mine did CH3-NO3 by simply allowing CH3-OH to get dropwise into excess Urea nitrate + HNO3 (98%) at 0°C and mild magnetic stirrer
agitation.Then with caution and by portions he dropped all the batch in iced water saturated with Na2CO3 and agitated faster with its magnetic stirer
well in the center of the beacker for 1/4 h...the tiny droplets of CH3-NO3 and CO2 bubbles made the neutralisation flask cloudy.
There is very little friction that way and neutralisation is very efficient.Water is then tested for mild basicity.After standing for an hour an oily
phase should float on top.It is collected with an eyedropper and placed in neutral distillated water where it is mildly agitated and washed a second
time.After standing an oily layer in the bottom is the desired product; collected and put in a wel closed PE plastic vessel with CaCl2
dehydratant.Methanol might be added to reduce sensitivity to shock.
The plain product doesn't detonate easily when hit by a hammer, but readily when absorbed in tiny piece of paper.AN/MN mix is very sensitive and
powerfull.
Better use the old NG preparation that distillate such a devil.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Iv4
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I was thinking about the making of formaline when I came across this.My idea(for formaline)was to add methanol to ammoniam nirtrate(don't know
how I got that idea).After a few minutes I realized how it could'nt work so I'm thinking this be more aplicable here.
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Madog
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i just made some methyyl nitrate, here is goes...
11ml of H2SO4 and 7.5ml 70% HNO3 were cooled in an ice bath and 6.5ml methanol added to it in small parts keeping the temprature below 20C. the mix
grew cloudy. after the addition was done it was swirled for another minute and then let sit at room temprature for about 5 minutes, a nice clean clear
oil was observed floating on the spent acids. the mix was drowned with some ice cold water and a clear oil sat on the bottom. it was sucked outwith a
pipet, a little was absorbed in paper and struck with a hammer, it made a satisfying crack.
the yield looked great, but i took a 1000ml beaker, and added about 200ml of water with sodium bicarb and then i squited some of the methl nitrate in
there and it fizzed, but disapeared! how water soluble is it? i could still smell it good though, i think some disolved, alot formed a really thin
layer ontop(couldnt see it really, not to mention get it off) and some stuck to the sides. but anyways, i couldnt see any of it.
im going to have ot do this again.
also, despite me takeing several good wifs of it, and actualy getting some of the wash water on myself, i have no headache. but then again, i have
never gottten a headache from NG, even though i havegotten it directly on my skin, i did actualy get NG headaches 2 times, from tasteing it.
im going to try it again and try useinga small amount of water, putting the product in there, then add NaHCO3 solution into that and swirlingnad
letting it sit.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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Madog
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i just did another nitration, this time i didnt bother to really neutralise and wash, i just detonated some immediately. the yield was bad this time,
i dont know why,porobaly because the nitration itself was faster, i should have given it more time.
i detonated about a ml, i took a think straw, put some PETN in it, pressed, then some HMTD, pressed that down lightly, fused it, then i wraped a
little paper towel around it and taped it in place(idea from brainfever, my standard "charge" for liquid explosives) i added about .8ml of
it to the paper and whent outside, put it in a sand pile a few inches down. it whentoff with a, hmmm, not like NG, not a boom, it was a loud pfft, the
sand shot strait up, the high VoD is evident here. unfortunately there was some kids in the pool next door and they started screaming after it whent
off, just like the barking dog effect. luckily it was quite a strange sound, didnt sound like it was definately an explosion.
very nice.
edit:
it doesnt have that ummf NG has. NG is alot louder and definately more powerful
its more sensitive, but i say not terribly so.
[Edited on 7/15/03 by Madog]
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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Theoretic
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Maybe MN hydrolysed in the alkaline solution to NaNO3 and CH3OH?
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garage chemist
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This sounds very interesting.
Theoretic, I'm sure you're right about the ester hydrolizing in the alkaline media.
This is also the reason why you must never wash nitrocellulose with dilute NaOH.
I tried out what happens with NC in warm NaOH, and the NC totally dissolved and the reaction mix had a very good smell, exactly like fresh bread! Some kind of maillard reaction must have happened.
I have absolutely no acess to methanol though, so I won't be able to make methyl nitrate.
I once tried to make ethyl nitrate. I mixed a few drops of >90% orange fuming nitric acid with a few drops of ethanol, there was a VILOENT reaction
at the moment as the liquids touched. Most of the reaction mix was vaporized and there were lots of red NO2 fumes.
Ethanol + red fuming nitric acid seem to make a rather good liquid rocket propellant!
But this is not what I want. I want ethyl nitrate.
I will try to nitrate ethanol with a standard nitration mix ( 2 volumes conc. H2SO4, 1 volume 65% HNO3).
Has anyone tried this out before?
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vulture
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Ethanol with HNO3 must be carried out at very low ( I would say subzero) temperatures because HNO3 has an oxidizing effect on higher alcohols like
ethanol. You were very likely producing glyoxal, acetaldehyde and acetic acid.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Polverone
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In Muspratt (and later texts too I think) it is stated that oxidation takes place because of nitrous acid contamination/production from the nitric
acid, and can be suppressed by the addition of urea.
"When two ounces of absolute alcohol and one ounce of strong nitric acid are mixed, and twenty grains of urea are added, the reaction is very
moderate; and after some time a very heavy oily liquid begins to separate, and is increased in quantity by the addition of water."
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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RIPPER
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Are this not methylnitrol about you talk ?
-----------------------------------------------
Could you PLEASE post clear and in english? 90% of your posts don't make any sense to me, including this one.
[Edited on 2-10-2004 by vulture]
[Edited on 2-10-2004 by vulture]
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sylla
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I've done some theoretical expectations about methyl nitrate (CH3ONO2) and a few calculus lead me to :
Methyl Nitrate (CH3ONO2), Enthalpy about -171 kJ/mol, Temperature of Explosion 2736°C, VOD at density = 1 is only 4986m/s. It has a fucking gaz
volume of 1.102 l/g at 0°C 1atm and energy of 3180 J/g which gives it a index power of 129.7% (Picric Acid %).
It's not really helpful and remain theoretical expectations so nothing sure at all but I guess it should be close to that
EDIT: Damn, I misencoded some data here are the good results : 6369m/s at d=1.2, 4464°C, 5882 J/g, 0.873 l/g, Power Index 190.1%.
I'm pretty close to the real enthalpy, -171kJ/mol is 2200kJ/kg !
[Edited on 3-10-2004 by sylla]
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Mephisto
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And here some empirical data
Methyl Nitrate
colorless volatile liquid
empirical formula: CH3NO3
molecular weight: 77.0
energy of formation: – 456.7 kcal/kg = –1911 kJ/kg
enthalpy of formation:
– 483.6 kcal/kg = –2023.6 kJ/kg
oxygen balance: –10.4%
nitrogen content: 18.19%
volume of explosion gases: 873 l/kg
heat of explosion
(H2O liq.): 1613 kcal/kg = 6748 kJ/kg
(H2O gas): 1446 kcal/kg = 6051 kJ/kg
specific energy: 123 mt/kg = 1210 kJ/kg
density: 1.217 g/cm3
boiling point: 65 °C = 149 °F
lead block test: 610 cm3
detonation velocity, confined:
6300 m/s = 20 700 ft/s at r = 1.217 g/cm3
deflagration: evaporation, no deflagration
impact sensitivity: 0.02 kp m = 0.2 N m
friction sensitivity:
up to 36 kp = 353 pistil load no reaction
critical diameter of steel sleeve test: 18 mm
Methyl nitrate is a highly volatile liquid, and its brisance is about equal to that of nitroglycerine. Its vapors are both flammable and explosive
and produce headaches. Methyl nitrate dissolves nitrocellulose, yielding a gel, from which it rapidly evaporates. It can be prepared by introducing
methyl alcohol into a nitrating mixture at a low temperature or by distilling methanol with mediumconcentrated nitric acid.
Taken from "Explosives" by R. Meyer (2002)
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Chris The Great
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Yay, my first nitration
I gathered the materials, all of which were fairly easy for me to obtain, methanol (99.9%), H2SO4 (boiled battery acid) and NH4NO3 (instant cold
pack).
100mL of H2SO4 was cooled in an ice bath, while I measured out 65 grams of NH4NO3. This was mixed into the H2SO4 with lots of stirring, and let sit
for 10 minutes until the mixture had achieved an even consistancy and had time to cool down.
29mL of methanol was slowly added with a syringe over a peroid of 30 minutes with constant rapid stirring. Occasionally I stopped and checked on the
temperature.
Before addition 3.0*C
2.5mL 8.0*C
10 min (10mL) 11.5*C
15 min (15mL) 11.5*C
20 min (20mL) 10.0*C
27 min (29mL) 12.0*C
After this there was a ~1cm thick oily layer floating on the surface, that vibrated rapdily for several seconds when the jar was lightly tapped,
indicating a very low viscosity.
http://img81.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img81&image=after0pm.jpg
I did a little dance at this point, as it meant I was probably successful.
I extracted the top layer of methyl nitrate with a syringe, squirting it into ice water to rinse it. I then removed the ice cubes and sucked it out
again with a syringe and squirted into sodium bicarbonate solution, and then from there I transferred it to a small jar. About 20mL was obatined.
Another layer was forming on top, so I extracted it and got another 4 to 5mL.
http://img81.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img81&image=product0ou.jp...
The warning is for my dad, who has the other half of the workshop, and often moves things because he likes them to be clean. I would rather him not
be moving my myrol around.
More myrol was floating to the top of the mix, so I capped it with a blue PVC pipe endcap and left it for the night.
I went back about 16 hours later, to find the inside of the blue plastic had turned a nice purple colour, the acid mix had cleared up and there was
more myrol floating on top. Another 3 to 4mL was obtained.
Total yield is about 28mL (34 grams), or alot less than theorectical.
However, there are some little beads of water (maybe 0.25mL total) of water floating on top, and it isn't clear, it is slightly murky. I think I
need to get rid of it quickly before it gets rid of itself.
It smells very nice however, much like chloroform. I haven't got a headache from inhaling it deeply however, though apparently some people
don't get them.
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Joeychemist
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“It isn't clear, it is slightly murky. I think I need to get rid of it quickly before it gets rid of itself.”
That is more than likely the water in the Methyl Nitrate that is making it “milky” and “cloudy”. This turbidity should disappear after letting
the Methyl Nitrate sit in the open for a day or so.
Putting it in a desiccator will speed up the process greatly.
Btw, Congratulations Chris, everyone remembers they’re first nitration. It’s like loosing your virginity.
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The_Davster
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I do not think that you can leave methyl nitrate in the open to allow the water to evaporate off like you can with NG. Methyl nitrate is too volatile
for this to work, you would loose a great deal of it, the only way to remove the water is in a desicator.
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Chris The Great
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Ok, I'll put it in a dessicator later today. I was worried about explosions, but I still want to get rid of it as soon as possible.
And yes, it is very volatile, more so than water, so leaving in the open will not work, unless I want water and not methyl nitrate!
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garage chemist
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Add a few pieces of anhydrous CaCl2 and swirl it around.
This worked wonders with turbid ethyl acetate, methyl benzoate and chloroform. The liquids were crystal clear after about half an hour.
Perhaps this also works with NG.
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The_Davster
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I do not think adding any solid dessicant to NG or methyl nitrate is a good idea... Same reason as why semi frozen NG is so sensitive, the
'grinding' of the liquid between the crystals.
[Edited on 14-3-2005 by rogue chemist]
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chemoleo
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Ok, how about a saturated solution of NaCl (or whatever)? That should remove the water, if you mix the two liquids and stir for several hours with a
teflon magnetic stirrer.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Joeychemist
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That should work!
It will also raise the density of the water in the solution and insure a cleaner separation of the two liquids.
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Myrol
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I made Myrol three times, moderate succes and also no headache after breathing it. My biggest problem was the good solubility of it in Water...40g
Myrol per Liter Water...thats a lot! So thats why I washed it with 22% NaCl sol.
The results in Explosion tests were great. 18,5ml Myrol produced a 30cm wide shallow crater with a nearly white flash at night and a little louder
BOOM than NG.
8,5ml Myrol (my second) batch were just burned down. I was to lazy to make a Blasting Cap so I thought I can prime Myrol like I've primed always
my NG earlier. With a sparkler .....stupid Idea....The Myrol burnt very fast down
with a around 50cm high bright white flame!
My third batch were 22ml wich I fired under Water. Blast was quite massive, I felt a shock at the edge of the pit and the water moved fairly high
(around 30cm hemispherical shape). The Charge was 40cm deep placed.
And don't forget: Because of Myrol's very faint viscosity, it can detonate even with 8000m/s if you use a strong Cap (1g HMTD) and not to
small amounts.
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Myrol
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I can't edit my previous post, but I've forgotten somethin' so I make it short:
For everybody (like me) who have a Vacuum pump etc. can make Myrol also with GREAT yields if you prepare the Myrol with AN /H2SO4 mix in an ordinary
way and then just Distill the Myrol out of the mix at such a Vacuum that he boils at less than 35°C.
Myrol is so volatile and enough chemically stable that you can heat that mix without problems to around 45°C without getting serious problems. I think I will try this method, because I have all the necessary Glassware etc.
The distilled Myrol must be neutralized before you store him, if you don't do so, H+ won't be with you
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