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Author: Subject: red soluble metal chloride??
Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 23-4-2013 at 13:07


Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
You could do the gas tests for HCl and Cl2 to put an end to the speculation.

Put an open bottle of ammonia next to your setup when you generate the gas - a white mist of NH4Cl will form if it is HCl.

Chlorine is (supposedly) the only gas with a bleaching effect, so hang a colored piece of paper or flower petal in the gas and see what happens. HCl might bleach a bit too, so the first test would be more conclusive.


about chlorine, if i can get to form it in large quanities i can do a simple test with steel wool instead, burning steel wool reacts very well with Cl2 making iron chloride, forms some red smoke.. looks pretty fancy aswell :P

but as blogfast stated its bound to water, so it reacts to form HCl and not Cl2, it was very stinging, not the saturated choking feeling as chlorine gives..




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 23-4-2013 at 13:09


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
HCl.. it can be bought seldomly as 37%.. what is the maximum concentration you can acquire from say 98% H2SO4 + NaCl?
it seemed as being very very strong concentration when coming from decomposition of FeCl3..


What comes off FeCl3 is NOTHING like what you get from NaCl + H2SO4. With the latter, assuming your H2SO4 is 95 % or better you basically get pure HCl and if you lead it through water and get your numbers right, you can make 37 w% HCl.

Hint: without heating the reaction goes to:

H2SO4(l) + NaCl(s) === > HCl(g) + NaHSO4(s)

There are plenty of posts on H2SO4/NaCl-based HCl gas generators on this forum, so UTSF.

[Edited on 23-4-2013 by blogfast25]


oh.. im sorry for not searching it up..
mean i have seen some .. oh.. graph i think its called over HCl potential concentration where it was capable of going as high as 70% some 50*C below 0*C

anyways i have searched around for maximum concentration of HCl a few times and never really got any results.. guess i missed the magical word for what you call it, just as you get many times more useful results if you include the word synthesis in a search (:




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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blogfast25
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[*] posted on 24-4-2013 at 04:30


At room temperature the maximum achievable HCl concentration is about 37 w%: that is known as 'concentrated hydrochloric acid'. At higher temperatures solubility of gases in solvents (in general) decreases.



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Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 25-4-2013 at 06:05


Quote: Originally posted by 12AX7  

A density of around 4 is much more suggestive of a ferrite (density 4.8-5.0).

You can determine if it's strontium or barium ferrite by adding a weak solution of a sulfate (sulfuric acid, potassium or ammonium sulfate, etc.) to the magnet solution.

Tim


i just tried this and i got no ppt.. :S

i used 37% H2SO4 (~+1m/L)
1.5 mL to around... 0.5 mL of concentrated XxClx solution

it just turned yellow (due to dilution)
could it be that its just iron..? i mean it certainly doesnt feel like iron, it snaps if you put too much pressure on it..




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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12AX7
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[*] posted on 25-4-2013 at 17:06


Hmm, perhaps it's a simpler compound then. Don't know what they would use other than Sr or Ba ferrite though. Perhaps performance wasn't a priority in its design.

Ferrites aren't very strong, they are technical ceramics and much weaker than, say, a ceramic formulated for strength and beauty, like porcelain. It could also perhaps be a resin bonded type (think flexible fridge magnets, without the flex), though these have really poor performance.

Tim




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blogfast25
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[*] posted on 26-4-2013 at 04:59


To convincingly test for iron you need a bit of peroxide solution (to fully oxidise the iron to Fe(III)) and some ammonium or potassium thiocyanate (aka 'rhodanide') solution (1 to 2 M).

Fe(3+) + SCN(-) === > FeSCN(2+), the latter is a deep, wine red complex.

With an excess of oxalate Fe(3+) forms a green, slightly fluorescent complex: FeOx3(3-) (trioxalatoferrate (III)) but it's harder to see at low concentrations.

[Edited on 26-4-2013 by blogfast25]




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Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 26-4-2013 at 08:13


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
To convincingly test for iron you need a bit of peroxide solution (to fully oxidise the iron to Fe(III)) and some ammonium or potassium thiocyanate (aka 'rhodanide') solution (1 to 2 M).

Fe(3+) + SCN(-) === > FeSCN(2+), the latter is a deep, wine red complex.

With an excess of oxalate Fe(3+) forms a green, slightly fluorescent complex: FeOx3(3-) (trioxalatoferrate (III)) but it's harder to see at low concentrations.

[Edited on 26-4-2013 by blogfast25]


i dont have any thiocyanates really, but i have seen it described that you can make FeC2O4 (iron oxalate) and then decompose that into iron powder, which i think i might do later on to be very sure there is iron in..
it does have a bright yellow tint when you swird the solution around and theres only a thin layer of the solution on the jar's sides so im very sure there is at least some iron in it..




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 26-4-2013 at 08:14


Quote: Originally posted by 12AX7  
Hmm, perhaps it's a simpler compound then. Don't know what they would use other than Sr or Ba ferrite though. Perhaps performance wasn't a priority in its design.

Ferrites aren't very strong, they are technical ceramics and much weaker than, say, a ceramic formulated for strength and beauty, like porcelain. It could also perhaps be a resin bonded type (think flexible fridge magnets, without the flex), though these have really poor performance.

Tim


well...
if this isnt a metal, and its conductive it could perhaps work for electrolysis purposes, tho im pretty sure it wont last as it contains metal.. when you put it next to a magnet it gets attracted or well the other way.. so it does contain some metal im sure




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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[*] posted on 27-4-2013 at 05:00


Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
i dont have any thiocyanates really, but i have seen it described that you can make FeC2O4 (iron oxalate) and then decompose that into iron powder, which i think i might do later on to be very sure there is iron in..


I doubt that, but could be wrong on this, ferrous oxalate would decompose to iron. All transition metal oxalates that I know of, on heating decompose to their oxide, at least in the presence of air.




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[*] posted on 27-4-2013 at 07:50


It is the case that ferrous oxalate decomposes to pyrophoric iron. There are sites and videos that demonstrate this. It could be that the decomposition of oxalate to carbon dioxide, and the resulting presence of carbon dioxide, prevents significant oxidation of the iron. I don't believe that ferrous oxide behaves so spectacularly when being shaken out as does pyrophoric iron.
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[*] posted on 27-4-2013 at 11:57


Well, I stand corrected Vargouille. I've got quite a bit of ferrous oxalate, so I might give that a try...



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[*] posted on 28-4-2013 at 13:18


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Well, I stand corrected Vargouille. I've got quite a bit of ferrous oxalate, so I might give that a try...


please try and see how fast you can make this stuff react
ive put this on my neverending list of chemsitry stuff to do
its fairly simple to do and ive got what i need so i should get around it some time..
i expect to see interesting stuff with sulfur
a bit offtopic tho




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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