UKnowNotWatUDo
Hazard to Self
Posts: 96
Registered: 30-6-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Eschweiler-Clarke Procedure
Anyone have a good procedure for an Eschweiler-Clarke methylation?Things like reaction temps/times. What kind of molar ratios should the formic
acid/formaldehyde be in relative to the amine. Does it proceed smoother whether the amine is in the base or protonated form or does it not matter? Any
information, especially first hand experience, would be greatly appreciated.
|
|
|
antibody
Harmless
Posts: 38
Registered: 4-2-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
et voila!
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/eschweiler-clarke....
|
|
|
sentinel097
Harmless
Posts: 10
Registered: 2-2-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Does the Eschweiler-Clarke reaction apply to simple amides as well as amines? I can't imagine why it wouldn't, but what do I know?
|
|
|
UKnowNotWatUDo
Hazard to Self
Posts: 96
Registered: 30-6-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I know it is possible, yes. I don't have the article in front of me at the moment but there are several examples of it succeeding with amides. However
there are also many more examples of it failing I'm afraid.
|
|
|
Nicodem
Super Moderator
Posts: 4230
Registered: 28-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The reaction is done simply by heating a primary or secondary amine with slight excess of formaldehyde in 85% formic acid as solvent and reagent at
100 C until the CO2 effervescence slows down (generally it takes no more than a couple of hours).
There are thousands of examples in the literature, so it would be pointless to give an example, but there is one focused on pedagogic aspects in
J. Chem. Educ. (DOI: 10.1021/ed045p118).
By UTFSE, other references can be found on this forum.
Quote: Originally posted by UKnowNotWatUDo  | | I know it is possible, yes. I don't have the article in front of me at the moment but there are several examples of it succeeding with amides. However
there are also many more examples of it failing I'm afraid. |
I never saw anything of this kind mentioned in any of the review articles on the topic, so please find those references. I can imagine that
N-deformylative Eschweiler methylations of N-alkylformamides to give tertiary amines might be possible under some conditions, but I never saw an
Eschweiler N-methylation of an amide to give an N-methylamide. I can't imagine why it would work, but what do I know?
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
|
|
|
DJF90
International Hazard
Posts: 2266
Registered: 15-12-2007
Location: At the bench
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Nicodem | | I never saw anything of this kind mentioned in any of the review articles on the topic, so please find those references. I can imagine that
N-deformylative Eschweiler methylations of N-alkylformamides to give tertiary amines might be possible under some conditions, but I never saw an
Eschweiler N-methylation of an amide to give an N-methylamide. |
Me either.
| Quote: | | I can't imagine why it would work, but what do I know? |
I'm sure thats not strictly true Nicodem 
[Edited on 6-8-2011 by DJF90]
|
|
|
sentinel097
Harmless
Posts: 10
Registered: 2-2-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Just to be abundantly clear, you're saying that methylation of primary amides isn't possible, that it may be possible on secondary amides, or that
it's simply not possible to stop the methylation of a primary amide at the secondary amide stage? The latter makes perfect sense given my limited
knowledge of the reaction, but I don't see why one little oxygen atom with no direct attachment to the reacting group would inhibit it's reactivity.
[Edited on 6-8-2011 by sentinel097]
|
|
|
Nicodem
Super Moderator
Posts: 4230
Registered: 28-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by sentinel097 | | Just to be abundantly clear, you're saying that methylation of primary amides isn't possible, that it may be possible on secondary amides, or that
it's simply not possible to stop the methylation of a primary amide at the secondary amide stage? |
I'm saying nothing of that. I said I never saw a single example of an Eschweiler-Clarke type of N-methylation of any amide whatsoever. That's why I
made a call for a reference.
| Quote: | | I don't see why one little oxygen atom with no direct attachment to the reacting group would inhibit it's reactivity. |
In organic chemistry the reactivity is all about some "atom with no direct attachment to the reacting group".
|
|
|
sentinel097
Harmless
Posts: 10
Registered: 2-2-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Of course, that's what I thought you meant. Assuming my understanding of probability theory is more solid than my ability to comprehend the countless
ramifications of organic chemistry, I think it's safe to say that someone must have tried it at some point, so the lack of reported results would
indicate beyond a reasonable doubt that the likelihood of it working is rather slim. In contrast, the likelihood of any attempts to verify this
hypothesis resulting in wasted reagents is dramatically greater. These things are never simple, are they?
|
|
|
UKnowNotWatUDo
Hazard to Self
Posts: 96
Registered: 30-6-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ah, my bad. I was remembering the article sightly wrong. It described the N-alkylation of amides using formaldehyde and was compared to the
eschweiler-clarke procedure, however the hydrogen source was molecular hydrogen and they utilized a Pd/C catalyst. Sorry sentinel097 for any confusion
I may have caused you.
Never the less if your interest lies in N-alkylation of an amide the article may prove useful to you still. Google "Extension of the eschweiler-clarke
procedure to the N-alkylation of amides" and you will find it.
|
|
|
sentinel097
Harmless
Posts: 10
Registered: 2-2-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ah, much obliged. So it's possible, but not simple by any means. I rest my case.
|
|
|
solo
International Hazard
Posts: 3975
Registered: 9-12-2002
Location: Estados Unidos de La Republica Mexicana
Member Is Offline
Mood: ....getting old and drowning in a sea of knowledge
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by UKnowNotWatUDo |
Never the less if your interest lies in N-alkylation of an amide the article may prove useful to you still. Google "Extension of the eschweiler-clarke
procedure to the N-alkylation of amides" and you will find it. |
Extension of the eschweiler-clarke procedure to the N-alkylation of amides
Fabienne Fache, Laurent Jacquot, Marc Lemaire
Tetrahedron Letters,
1994, Volume 35, Issue 20, Pages 3313-3314
doi:10.1016/S0040-4039(00)76894-8
http://www.sciencedirect.com.pbidi.unam.mx:8080/science/arti...
...make your request for it at the Reference section...solo
It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
|
|
|
ThatchemistKid
Hazard to Others
Posts: 132
Registered: 2-6-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
The electron density around an amide nitrogen is nothing like that around an amine nitrogen's... amides are generally not very nucleophilic and
usually have to be deprotonated to react.
the amide carbonyl bond has partial double bond character and the electron density is shifted a bit more towards the carbonyl carbon in the case of
the amide instead of pushed towards the nitrogen in the case of the amine...that is why it will not react (atleast to my knowledge) in this reaction.
[Edited on 9-8-2011 by ThatchemistKid]
[Edited on 9-8-2011 by ThatchemistKid]
oh and one more thing that one little oxygen atom not attached to the nitrogen is a big deal in this case it is causing carbon next to the nitrogen to
have low electron density ..diminished MO lobes and it is having a field affect on the nitrogens electron density sucking it away and because of the
lone pairs on the nitrogen and the double bond of the oxygen to the carbon this atom has a couple resonance structures that are major contributers
...funny what one little oxygen atom can do while not being attached to the nitrogen.
[Edited on 9-8-2011 by ThatchemistKid]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
