plante1999
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Triethylamine / Trimethylamine synthesis
I have some question , first how can i synthesis Triethylamine / Trimethylamine.
Also i know that Trimethylamine n-oxide is a solid , does the oxide of Triethylamine is a solid or a liquid?
A way that i ave see on wikipedia:
For trymethylamine , with a catalyst.
3 CH3OH + NH3 → (CH3)3N + 3 H2O
Thanks!
[Edited on 27-4-2011 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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ScienceSquirrel
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Best lab preparation for trimethylamine is the Org Syn one;
http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=CV1...
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mr.crow
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So the formaldehyde also acts as a reducing agent and is itself oxidized to formic acid and then to carbon dioxide. I bet a solution of ammonium
chloride, acetaldehyde (or paraldehyde) and formic acid would work to form triethylamine. I could be wrong of course. trimethylamine sounds kind of
unpleasant
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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ScienceSquirrel
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Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow  | | So the formaldehyde also acts as a reducing agent and is itself oxidized to formic acid and then to carbon dioxide. I bet a solution of ammonium
chloride, acetaldehyde (or paraldehyde) and formic acid would work to form triethylamine. I could be wrong of course. trimethylamine sounds kind of
unpleasant |
You are wrong.
The reaction of formaldehyde to form amines under these conditions is unique among the aldehydes.
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mr.crow
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Ah, got it!
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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ItalianChemist
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I've triethylamine, it's a very volatile and corrosive liquid, it has a ugly odour and is also very flammable and harmful.
I don't know the synthesis but methylamine can be produced by reduction of nitromethane.
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plante1999
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I have nitromethane , i use it as solvent for plastic.
What catalist should i use if i want to do this:
For trymethylamine , with a catalyst.
3 CH3OH + NH3 → (CH3)3N + 3 H2O
Also for who want to know why want this compound, witch is not avaible for me, i want to atemps this(it is also on the hydrazine thread):
First stage:
carbamine peroxide + trimethylamine(catalyst) → urea + water + trimethylamine n-oxide
(NH2)2CO.H2O2 + (CH3)3N →(NH2)2CO + H2O + (CH3)3NO
second stage:
trimethylamine n-oxide + urea → carbon dioxide + hydrazine + trimethylamine
(CH3)3NO + (NH2)2CO → CO2 + N2H4 + (CH3)3N
overal process:
carbamine peroxide + trimethylamine(catalyst) → carbon dioxide + water + hydrazine + trimethylamine
(NH2)2CO.H2O2 + (CH3)3N → CO2 + H2O + N2H4 + (CH3)3N
[Edited on 28-4-2011 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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ItalianChemist
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| Quote: Originally posted by plante1999 | I have nitromethane , i use it as solvent for plastic.
What catalist should i use if i want to do this:
For trymethylamine , with a catalyst.
3 CH3OH + NH3 → (CH3)3N + 3 H2O
[Edited on 28-4-2011 by plante1999] |
If you reduce the -NO2 group on nitromethane to -NH2, you obtain methylamine, not trimethylamine.
I haven't got a procedure, but you could try refluxing nitromethane in presence of a source of H2
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Melgar
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Would dimethylethanolamine (DMAE) work? It's available as a nutrition supplement, and you can buy it in bulk from a bunch of different places. Not
sure if that OH group would be a problem, or if any old tertiary amine will do.
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ScienceSquirrel
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| Quote: Originally posted by plante1999 |
Also for who want to know why want this compound, witch is not avaible for me, i want to atemps this(it is also on the hydrazine thread):
First stage:
carbamine peroxide + trimethylamine(catalyst) → urea + water + trimethylamine n-oxide
(NH2)2CO.H2O2 + (CH3)3N →(NH2)2CO + H2O + (CH3)3NO
second stage:
trimethylamine n-oxide + urea → carbon dioxide + hydrazine + trimethylamine
(CH3)3NO + (NH2)2CO → CO2 + N2H4 + (CH3)3N
overal process:
carbamine peroxide + trimethylamine(catalyst) → carbon dioxide + water + hydrazine + trimethylamine
(NH2)2CO.H2O2 + (CH3)3N → CO2 + H2O + N2H4 + (CH3)3N
[Edited on 28-4-2011 by plante1999] |
Is that a documented reaction or have you just made it up?
Just because you can write an equation for a reaction does not mean that it will work.
I can write;
N2O + H2O ---> H2O2 + N2
but it is pure unadulterated rocking horse shit!
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ItalianChemist
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| Quote: Originally posted by Melgar | | Would dimethylethanolamine (DMAE) work? It's available as a nutrition supplement, and you can buy it in bulk from a bunch of different places. Not
sure if that OH group would be a problem, or if any old tertiary amine will do. |
Dimethylethanolamine is different from dimethylamine!
Eliminating the -OH can result very difficult
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plante1999
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| Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel | | Quote: Originally posted by plante1999 |
Also for who want to know why want this compound, witch is not avaible for me, i want to atemps this(it is also on the hydrazine thread):
First stage:
carbamine peroxide + trimethylamine(catalyst) → urea + water + trimethylamine n-oxide
(NH2)2CO.H2O2 + (CH3)3N →(NH2)2CO + H2O + (CH3)3NO
second stage:
trimethylamine n-oxide + urea → carbon dioxide + hydrazine + trimethylamine
(CH3)3NO + (NH2)2CO → CO2 + N2H4 + (CH3)3N
overal process:
carbamine peroxide + trimethylamine(catalyst) → carbon dioxide + water + hydrazine + trimethylamine
(NH2)2CO.H2O2 + (CH3)3N → CO2 + H2O + N2H4 + (CH3)3N
[Edited on 28-4-2011 by plante1999] |
Is that a documented reaction or have you just made it up?
Just because you can write an equation for a reaction does not mean that it will work.
I can write;
N2O + H2O ---> H2O2 + N2
but it is pure unadulterated rocking horse shit! |
myself made equation , but i made it from old document about decarbonylation catalist, and some real reaction that i have see on some of my book.
[Edited on 6-5-2011 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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ScienceSquirrel
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I can see the urea hydrogen peroxide compound reacting with the amine to form the N-oxide but I cannot see it reacting with the urea to form
hydrazine.
I do not know a lot about amine oxides but I have never seen a reaction when one does anything like that!
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