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m4unot
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Hydrochloric acid / HCL - My formula
I would like to produce/make hydrochloric acid: HCl
- I mixed NaCl and H2SO4 (sodium chloride and sulphuric acid) and got HCL, but
is the formula:
NaCl + H2SO4 - > HCL,
NaCl + H2SO4 - > HCL + HSO4,
NaCl + H2SO4 - > HCL + NaHSO4
or something else and why?
Since I've used first: NaCl and then mixed it with H2SO4, I think it is: NaCl + H2SO4 and because I got: HCl:
NaCl + H2SO4 => HCL, but I am unsure.
I'm trying to learn chemistry alone
PS:
I mixed table salt and hydrogen sulfate with 20 ml of water in the bottle, I turned on the heat, it started to boil, etc. ..
My whole point is how I describe the way I've worked with - in formulas.
Is: NaCl + H2SO4 => HCL , right or wrong and why?
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1281371269
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That can't be right because the two sides don't add up.
NaCl(s) + H2SO4(l) --> HCl(g) + NaHSO4(s)
But that's the easy bit. You need a pretty good setup to actually bubble the gas through water without poisoning yourself.
Edit: Missed out an (s)
[Edited on 3-3-2011 by Mossydie]
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Mixell
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Please balance your equations...
The formula is 2NaCl + H2SO4--> Na2SO4 +2HCl.
Although it probably depends of the molar ratios and a few other factors, the reaction listed above mine is also correct.
[Edited on 3-3-2011 by Mixell]
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hissingnoise
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The products are NaHSO<sub>4</sub> and HCl
H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> + NaCl--->NaHSO<sub>4</sub> + HCl.
Na<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> is only formed by strong heating!
The gas should be bubbled into water using an inverted funnel to avoid suck-back . . .
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m4unot
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Many thanks for all your help friends, but lacks explanation.
Mossydie says: NaCl(s) + H2SO4(l) --> HCl(g) + NaHSO4
Mixell says: 2NaCl + H2SO4--> Na2SO4 +2HCl.
and Mr. hissingnoise says: H2SO4 + NaCl--->NaHSO4 + HCl.
I have no idea who is right and who is wrong...
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hissingnoise
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Hmmm, All of the above . . .
The reaction can be forced to completion by sustained, strong heating but it's not used in practice for obvious reasons!
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peach
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Mixell is assuming you're going to heat it through to completion.
Hissingnoise and Mossydie are giving you the realistic version of it being run cold. I haven't seen anyone here bothering to heat theirs when
generating it, as it's a lot of effort for not a lot more when table salt is tens of pence per kilo.
You won't get concentrated hydrochloric if any of your hydrogen chloride escapes the water at the end before being absorbed. And hydrogen chloride be
more prone to escaping the higher the concentration gets; as it's solubility decreases.
[Edited on 3-3-2011 by peach]
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Mixell
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Well, heating it to completion doesn't decrease the amount of NaCl you use, but the amount of H2SO4 that is consumed in the process.
But yes, heating it isn't a very wise thing to do if you want to make hydrochloric acid (although preparing it in the first place doesn't worth the
efforts, you can buy it in basically any DIY store).
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m4unot
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Mossydie says: NaCl + H2SO4--> HCl + NaHSO4
- Since I've used first: NaCl and then mixed it with H2SO4, i agree with: NaCl + H2SO4, and since
the result is or expects to be: HCL
so therefore I think the formula is: NaCl + H2SO4--> HCl, but why HCl + NaHSO4 ?
Can I get an easy explanation.
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hissingnoise
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The reactants should be dry; that is ~98% H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> and dry NaCl.
They react immediately and when the reaction slackens some heating is necessary to convert all NaCl to NaHSO<sub>4</sub>.
Ice-cold water is best for absorption . . .
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m4unot
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To everyone who worked on this Conversation and to everyone who participated in it: THANK YOU. It was a pleasure for me. 
sodium chloride + sulphuric acid => hydrochloric + sodium sulfate
Unbalanced Chemistry Equation:
NaCl + H2SO4 => HCL + Na2SO4
balanced Chemistry Equation:
NaCl + H2SO4 => HCL + NaHSO4
Indicate the States of Matter:
NaCl(s) + H2SO4(l) --> HCl(g) + NaHSO4
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peach
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| Quote: | | so therefore I think the formula is: NaCl + H2SO4--> HCl |
In that equation, you've just lost a significant number of the atoms on the right to 'nowhere'. 1 sodium, 1 hydrogen, 1 sulphur and 4 oxygens are
missing from the product side.
They don't go missing, they form into something else. The bisulphate.
The sulphuric is displacing the chlorides on the sodium.
| Quote: | | but why HCl + NaHSO4 |
Because what's left of the sulphuric and salt once the chloride has left the salt and one of the hydrogens has left the sulphuric has to go somewhere.
One of the first things you learn in chemistry is that equations need balancing. Some of that can get complicated, but with NaCl + H2SO4--> HCl,
you should easily be able to see by glancing at it that a significant percentage of what you've got on the left is missing from the right; whole
elements are disappearing, e.g. the sodium, sulphur and oxygen.
| Quote: |
Unbalanced Chemistry Equation:
NaCl + H2SO4 => HCL + Na2SO4
balanced Chemistry Equation:
NaCl + H2SO4 => HCL + NaHSO4
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Whilst the top one is unbalanced, it's also for a different reaction.
The second one occurs first, at room temperature. The top one occurs once the mixture is heated, and it occurs via an intermediate.
Cold: NaCl + H2SO4 => HCL + NaHSO4
Then apply heat: NaCl + NaHSO4 → HCl + Na2SO4
[Edited on 3-3-2011 by peach]
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m4unot
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Very beautiful research, Thank's peach.
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hissingnoise
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In the reaction; H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> + NaNO<sub>3</sub>---> HNO<sub>3</sub> +
NaHSO<sub>4</sub>.
Temperatures routinely reach 120°C and only the bisulphate forms . . .
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Mixell
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Well, not exactly, dinitrogen pent-oxide (nitric acid anhydride) is also formed, some of it attracts water molecules in the gas phase I assume, and
some attracts water molecules at the condensation phase (its also important to mention that some of the dinitrogen pent-oxide decomposes to oxygen and
the quite toxic nitrogen dioxide gas, so the reaction should be performed with a gas tight apparatus or in a ventilated location.
But again, nitric acid can be easily purchased in most of the countries, so performing this reaction only for the sake of receiving nitric acid is
quite useless (and dangerous!), unless you require concentrated nitric acid (95%+ can be reached without too much effort).
Also, nitrogen dioxide anesthetizes the nose even on low concentrations, so if you perform the reaction and you stop smelling the harmful gases, it
doesn't mean that they are gone.
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Bot0nist
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@ Mixell
I tried the ole _NO<sub>3</sub> + H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> route a while back. Not fun. I couldn't get any
condensation and a little leak gave me a small taste of orange. Not fun indeed.
I'll stick to my 68%. Even at the prices.
[Edited on 4-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
[Edited on 4-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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m4unot
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People often mention Sir Isaac Newton's laws and Einstein, but forget the father of chemistry, Jaber bin
Hayyan, Ja'far al-Sadiq who was known for many physics and chemistry discoveries and Al-Khwarizmi the
father of Algebra, which is used in mathematics / chemistry equations .
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hissingnoise
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We've drifted a little?
Anyway, N<sub>2</sub>O<sub>5</sub> cannot exist in the presence of water.
In distillation, it is HNO<sub>3</sub> that decomposes to produce NO<sub>2</sub>.
The rest of your post too, sounds a bit mixed-up!
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Mixell
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Almost all of the N2O5 turns into nitric acid (not immediately), but some decomposes too.
My first try at distilling nitric acid failed because I was using rubber stoppers (due to the lack of a proper distillation kit), in the 5 minutes the
reaction ran, the dinitrogen pentoxide oxidized a 0.2 mm layer of the rubber stopper (which isn't attacked by nitric acid).
The N2O5 exists in the gas phase when a production of nitric acid via the nitrate salts and sulfuric acid occurs, when there is a lack of water vapors
due to the dehydration quality of sulfuric acid.
P.S. - I'm a bit drunk at the moment of writing this, so things may not be so clear to the sober individual.
And about the mixed-up part, can be, but this is how I write...
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trezza
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Hence the name "Mixell"? 
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hissingnoise
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Quote: Originally posted by Mixell  | | in the 5 minutes the reaction ran, the dinitrogen pentoxide oxidized a 0.2 mm layer of the rubber stopper (which isn't attacked by nitric acid).
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Wow! You're well on the way to rewriting the entire lit. on chemical physics!
And I was commenting on content rather than style . . .
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Mixell
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Might be =)
But its a name I used in a video game 6 years ago, which is currently my nickname in basically everywhere.
But this is already drifting away from the topic.
And about the distillation of nitric acid, if the author decides to distill nitric acid, please adjust the heat very carefully and heat the vessel
gradually, because you cannot imagine what hell will break loose if you over heat the system (something I learned from a mistake caused by the lack of
patience...).
Edit- I'm not a big fan of sarcasm, and what was the problem with the content in my post, a bit of interesting information regarding safety isn't
completely useless I assume.
[Edited on 4-3-2011 by Mixell]
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hissingnoise
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Look Mixell, the fact that rubber is immediately and aggressively attacked by HNO<sub>3</sub> is something everyone who's ever handled
HNO<sub>3</sub> knows by heart!
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Mixell
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I don't know if it was rubber, but in fact I tried to use this stopper with nitric acid (68%) and it worked fine, no visible corrosion was detected.
Just tried it again, it doesn't react with the nitric acid, so it must be some other material and not rubber.
[Edited on 4-3-2011 by Mixell]
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | I'm not a big fan of sarcasm . . . |
Don't invite it, then!
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