FatPat005
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 5-2-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: (n.) - Emotion
|
|
Glassware Questions...
Hello all...
My name is Patrick Kelly and I have been reading the boards here for a long time and still know very little. I am a major newbie at this chemistry
stuff although I have some experience from my simple high school chemisty classes that I have taken to date. I do have one question for you however
that I was unable to find by searching the internet as I usually do. I have been doing some research on glassware and will probably be buying some
here in the near future to get started with some simple experiments, but my question is this: All of the different flasks and such have different
mouths on them, but for some purposes(distilling, etc,...) must be connected together. It is probably some very simple concept, but I am just unable
to see how they can be connected. If you could please explain or link me to a site that might help clarify, it would be greatly appreciated...
I owe a lot to my parents, especially my mother and father.
by Greg Norman
|
|
|
Mumbles
Hazard to Others
Posts: 436
Registered: 12-3-2003
Location: US
Member Is Offline
Mood: Procrastinating
|
|
There are two kinds of connecting glasware. Ground glass and not ground glass.
Ground glass will have a number with it. 24/40 is fairly common in the US. As for other sizes there are a little bit harder to find, in the US at
least. A ground glass joint is like a puzzle. One male piece will fit into one female piece perfectly. Any two joints of the same size will fit
together, well they should anyway.
Non ground glass flasks and such are said to have tooled mouths. They'll have a number that goes with this too. The number is the size of
stopper that will fit into the mouth. Basically everything non ground glass will be concencted together by rubber stoppers and glass tubing.
|
|
|
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
In europe, 29/32 joints are the standard.
Make sure that the glassware you buy is all borosilicate glass. Joints of different types of glas will crack due to different expansion coefficients
when heating them.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
|
|
|
Mendeleev
Hazard to Others
Posts: 237
Registered: 25-12-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: stoned
|
|
I also had a glassware question that I posted on another forum, but seem to be getting no answer. Why is it that round bottom flasks are preffered
to flat bottom flasks for distilling? I got to wondering this because all of the websites that sell ground glass equipment sell the flat bottom
flasks, but if they sell a fully constructed ready to go apparatus then it is always round bottom. It seems less convenient to me as they have to
have a heating mantle instead of a hot plate, and you can't use magnetic stirrers with them. I was wondering if maybe flat bottom flasks implode
in vacuum distillation, but I do not know if this is true.
Trogdor was a man. A dragon man. Or maybe just a dragon. . .
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Flat bottomed flasks are likely to implode under vacuum.
I generally use a water bath or oil bath for heating stuff when I distill it and so a RB flask is no problem. I also usually find that the mag stirer
works fine in RB flasks.
If the flask has more nekcs than you need the easiest thing to do is put stoppers in them. It's cheaper to get a 3 neck flask and 2 stoppers than
to get 3 flasks, one of each with 1, 2 and 3 necks.
On the offchance that anyone cares, those numbers (like 29/32) are the diameter of the large end and the length of the ground cone in mm. The angle is
a standard 1 in 10 taper.
|
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
Glad someone explained the taper protocol.(zinc shot)
I'd like to add something on the topic of baths. I've found oil baths to be messy and I always end up with a pernicious film in the form of
a ring on the glassware.
and water does have such a low liquid range.
I used to use white sandbox sand, but it would invariably get everywhere. especially stuck to the silicone oil I seal the ground glass joints with.
Just a grain or two would break the seal and make a gawdawful noise that make fingernails on a slate blackboard seem like wonderful muscic.
The only upside to the sand was never having to add boiling chips to anything.
What I have really gotten fond of using is ZINC SHOT. I get it in a jar at the Canadian Tire (you yanks'd get it at a hunters supply shop I
guess) and it works wonders. It has a relatively low heat capacity and transmits heat better than you would think.
I think the best recommendation for zinc shot is that its lag time is miniscule in comparison to water or sand. In fact, the limiting factor is
usually the container you use for the bath!
It's cheap and comes in a durable round carton with its own pouring spout. The one I buy, even has its own wide mouth funnel included!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
A saturated Solution of CaCl2 boils at 178C which is very good for a water bath.
Hermes, zink melts at 419C, isn't that a little hot?
Also, the low heat capacity causes it to heat up fast, possibly too fast for the glass. Remember that the temperature difference between inside and
outside of the flask should not exceed 30C, certainly under reduced pressure.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
|
|
|
Organikum
resurrected
Posts: 2337
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: frustrated
|
|
I believe Hermes doesnt melt the zinc but uses it similar to a sandbath - where the sand also is not molten, isnt it?
If using a waterbath - or salt saturated water, it is a good idea to add some hard paraffine to the bath - this melts at about 50°C and forms a thin
film on the surface preventing evaporation almost completely. I hate this sauna-touch waterbaths usually have....
Paraffine wax from candles works fine. Make sure to get paraffine and not stearine candles.
|
|
|
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Doesn't that cause splattering?
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
|
|
|
Organikum
resurrected
Posts: 2337
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: frustrated
|
|
huh ?
Adding water to hot oil causes splattering.
Adding an small amount of an longchainhydrocarbon to hot water makes an film on the surface.
I found this in a paper on lab-practice from a german university - it sounded good, was tried and works well.
What do you think could splatter here?
|
|
|
Mendeleev
Hazard to Others
Posts: 237
Registered: 25-12-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: stoned
|
|
So flat bottom flasks are more likely to implode under vacuum eh? Just how likely, is it a guarantee or just more probable that they will implode?
If anyone has any good glassware sites please post them, here are my top four listed in order from best to less best:
1. http://www.chemglass.com/
2. http://www.unitedglasstech.com/
3. http://www.elementalscientific.net/
4. http://www.wilmad-labglass.com/
Also what is the purpose of having so many necks on flasks, two I can understand, but 3, 4, and 5? What is the purpose unless you have a complex
process reactor like on www.chemglass.com? Should you in theory have such a five neck flask would you hook up the adapter/condenser to the middle neck or the outer
necks. The reason I ask is that their largest flask the 22 liter five neck has four outer 24/40 necks and the center one is 45/50. They have 45/50
flasks, and adapters, but I could not find a 45/50 condenser, and I am trying to rig the largest possible still.
[Edited on 7-2-2004 by Mendeleev]
|
|
|
Mumbles
Hazard to Others
Posts: 436
Registered: 12-3-2003
Location: US
Member Is Offline
Mood: Procrastinating
|
|
With 5 necks you can have 5 of the following at the same time.
Distilling
Addition
Gas inlet
Manual Stirrer
Reaction Temp
Gas bubbler
I had a few more, but they are slipping my mind as of now.
[Edited on 2-7-2004 by Mumbles]
|
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
Hmmm!
O Canada!
http://www.indigo.com/
http://www.fcsurplus.ca/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=...
coming soon (er or later)
http://www.torontosurplus.com/
http://labsurplus.com/html/gla.html
(these guys are selling a stirring hotplate for 75$)
american
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=4
http://www.macnanbio.com/
repairs and hard to find items...
http://www.medscitech.com/surplusglassware.htm
http://www.sciencestockroom.com/
others
http://www.spendloveresearch.org/XSPages/glassware.htm
aww screw it....look at em yerselves, they're like fleas on a dog's arse!
http://www.spacetransportation.org/Instruments_and_Supplies/...
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
Mendeleev
Hazard to Others
Posts: 237
Registered: 25-12-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: stoned
|
|
D'oh, I should have thought of that, I guess my knowledge of applied chemistry is not quite are good as I thouth, or maybe not good at all, but
either way, I suppose that means that the distillation adapter, column can be attached to the outer neck. Thanks Hermes, some of those are pretty
damn good! Yet upont closer inspection none of these sources are what you would call, comprehensive.
[Edited on 7-2-2004 by Mendeleev]
[Edited on 8-2-2004 by Mendeleev]
|
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mumbles
With 5 necks you can have 5 of the following at the same time.
Distilling
Addition
Gas inlet
Manual Stirrer
Reaction Temp
Gas bubbler
I had a few more, but they are slipping my mind as of now.
[Edited on 2-7-2004 by Mumbles] |
yessireebob, You also usually don't want to break a vacuum to change addition funnels while a reaction is proceeding. Not all synth's are
one step-two reactant
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
Taz
Harmless
Posts: 9
Registered: 5-3-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Glassware Site
http://www.organicglassware.com/
|
|
|
Blind Angel
National Hazard
Posts: 845
Registered: 24-11-2002
Location: Québec
Member Is Offline
Mood: Meh!
|
|
Kinda off topic, but for how much can i get a old used cheap heating mantle for 500 or 1000ml, i looked on ebay but they don't go lower than
~70$, am I too cheap or can I get a better deal by shopping more?
Also, what should be my next big purchase:
- 14/20 Micro Distillation Apparatus
- 2/3 Necked Flask
- Reflux/Friedrich condenser
- Soxhlet Separator
???
I'm mostly asking or reccurrance of the needed glassware than the immediate use. Also if someone could provide me a link to the use of a Soxhlet
I would be very pleased, thx
Oh, and about Gas Mask, does old army one can be usefull or they're only decorative?
[Edited on 8-3-2005 by Blind Angel]
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED |
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
Blind Angel I picked up a 500 mL mantle for $39 and a 100 mL mantle for $9. But I think I was lucky to get them that cheap.
For a big purchase I'm a real believer in a glassware kit. I have and like the 19/22 ST size but have to admit that the 24/40 seems more
popular. The beauty of the kit is that it is all gg and can be rearranged in many different configurations depending on the application, i.e.,
distillation, steam distillation, fractional distillation, reaction w/reflux, etc.
I'm looking for a 45/50 Alihn condenser to go with my Soxhlet extractor. I've been waiting for a long time as the ebay prices are too high
in my opinion. Fortunately I'm not obsessing about some experiment that needs it.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
$39? I got a used 500mL mantle for ~$10 on eBay. Strange, no one else seemed to want it.
|
|
|
Quince
National Hazard
Posts: 773
Registered: 31-1-2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I want to store concentrated HNO3 in an amber glass bottle with a ground glass stopper. However, I've read that ground glass joints should be
lubricated. But what sort of grease will withstand that acid? Is silicon grease OK? I have the plumber's Teflon tape, but that's not very
convenient as I'd have to rewind it every time I open the thing.
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
I keep a very thin film of silicone stopcock grease on my gg organic kit connections. But I have never heard that reagent bottle gg stoppers should
generally be lubed. It would make sense if you find that the joint isn't vapor tight or you are storing something that attacks glass like sodium
hydroxide.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
