Sauron
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The Big Names Glass Companies Are not All Created Equal
I just got registered as a user with Chemglass's online ordering system, and their export manager, who is a very nice lady, promptly gave me a 25%
discount off their list prices for CG-manufactured items.
As CG is already much less expensive than Ace Glass (30-35% on the items I am after now), and Ace, who I have done business with, has never once
extended any discount at all, this is both welcome and refreshing.
A cursory look at the arithmetic suggests that a 25% discount off 65% of Ace prices amounts to about 50% of Ace prices.
And these two companies are located in the same city (Vineland NJ).
I do not know what CG's sales policies are like domestically, whether they are hobbyist friendly, or restrict themselves to commercial and
institutional buyers. But it may well be worth your finding out. I had to provide some background on myself and my company, but it was cursory, and
not intrusive. Basically just "who are you and what do you do?" sort of thing. These days this is very likely just due diligence.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Phosphor-ing
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On the registration for their website company name is a required field. So it looks like this opportunity will be for those with a tax id# and a
corporate/company name.
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" -Ronald Reagan
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Sauron
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I have my shipments sent to a US company address for consolidation and transshipment to Thailand. CG is perfectly happy to do this as they do not have
to deal with export docs etc. They did not ask for any EIN for the US company. I volunteered their CA sales tax exemption.
There are simpler easier business forms than a corporation. It is quite simple to set up a sole proprietorship, with a d/b/a/ company name. That would
suffice for CG I am sure. I seriously doubt that they engage in the sort of scruiny that chemical suppliers like Aldrich routinely do. As I am not in
USA, I have not looked into their policies closely. But they seem quite flexible. For example, at first glance the website cgi form for new customers
appears to require credit card payment. I do not have any CC. But on inquiry they told me just to leave those fields blank. I can pay by bank wire,
which is easy and convenient for me.
They did not ask for any tax id number (federa = EIN, employer ID number). They have an optional field for any company website, something that would
be easy to create.
[Edited on 21-5-2008 by Sauron]
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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evil_lurker
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I definately like Chemglass. But I love ACE's threaded glassware and wider selection of widigits.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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Sauron
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Ace definitely makes some products that no one else makes. Labglass, though, also makes the internally threaded glass joints and they look to be
interchangeable with ace-threds, but they are about same price as Ace. Ace has got a near-monopoly on photochemical and pressure reaction glassware.
But Chemglass makes some things Ace does not offer. Blank reaction vessel lids with Scott/Duran flanges for example. A great convenience when having a
glassblower fabricate a special lid. For example it occured to me that having dedicated, special reaction vessels for photochemistry was a bit of a
waste. So why not use flanged cylindrical reactors, and just have a special lid with center joint replaced with a #50 ace-thred? No one, not even
Ace, offers lids like that, except as custom made. So I buy the inexpensive blank lids from CG ($150 less 25% for largest size 200mm flange) and get
the ace-thred joint from Ace, and have local glassblower put them together and add the side neck joints.
This way, the reaction vessel itself can be used for other typers of preps. It's just a lid change. In the same way, I can have special lids for
baffles, rather than Morton vessels with indents in the wall. A pyrex rod or PTFE rod mounted through a tapered or threaded joint serves as a
turbulence-increasing baffle; place these symmetrically around the interior of vessel and you have a Morton flask equivalent without the limitations
of a Morton flask (no vacuum, no pressure).
Ace does not offer these blank lids. You'd have to start with a finished lid and add or change neck joints. Second hand lids do turn up, but usually
in 100-150 mm sizes rather than 200 mm flange ID.
So anyway, yes - Ace is still only game in town for some things but, those things are relatively few, and relatively specialized. While on all else CG
has a huge advantage on price.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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evil_lurker
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Chemglass also makes internal joints compatable with Ace joints, but they are special order items.
Right now I'm looking for a glassblower that can make a stillhead and/or condenser with rodaviss joints... imagine being able to set up a distillation
apparatus with only one clamp and no worries about the reciever falling off on larger distillations.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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MagicJigPipe
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I just looked at those Rodaviss joints for the first time on Kimble/Kontes site (I can't believe I didn't notice it on their printed catalog as I just
recently went all the way through it) and I must say that it seems very impressive and convienient. And the prices do not seem to be prohibitively
expensive!
I've been wanting a threaded-type distillation setup for as long as I can remember but the only way I could ever think of getting one is ordering from
Ace or finding something on eBay (I've never seen any threaded glassware on eBay, or any decently priced on LabX, and I subscribe to
their newsletter!)
One day I shall. And yes, Evil, I can imagine it but it seems like a distant dream right now.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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chemrox
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a minor point of interest. Vineland NJ is full of glass makers. From big companies like Ace to guys working out of garages. The reason is the
relatively pure silica sand that is found there. Ancient sand dunes are excavated and made into scientific glass.
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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MagicJigPipe
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I have noticed that. I just forgot to ask. I remember seeing several "companies" that listed Vineland as there city of origin when searching through
scientific glass suppliers.
Very interesting indeed.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Sauron
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For similar reasons China is a major quartz tubing and rod producer. An abundant supply of the raw material. But they do a pisspoor job of fabricating
tubing. The big boys like GE and Phillips have moved in and purchased Chinese factories to gain access to the supply, but I am told they are pretty
hesitant to transfer technology. So they ship tubing to US and Europe and reprocess it there to eliminate bubbles etc that the Chinese left in.
A really good source for scientific quartz tubing (exclusively GE Type 214 tube and rod) is National Scientific Co. in PA. They sell in small lengths,
minimum 4 feet or $50 whichever is greater, and stock a great many diameters and wall thicknesses. They also do custom fabrication of apparatus. See
their website.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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-jeffB
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
A really good source for scientific quartz tubing (exclusively GE Type 214 tube and rod) is National Scientific Co. in PA. They sell in small lengths,
minimum 4 feet or $50 whichever is greater, and stock a great many diameters and wall thicknesses. They also do custom fabrication of apparatus. See
their website. |
They snagged a pretty cool domain name, too. 
http://www.quartz.com/
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amrhamed2
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I like threaded glassware from Ace but I think that kimble is more outstanding company ...
BTW ,they all mimic each other ......for example look at the pressure vessel ..it is now sold by chemglass,Ace and kimble
BTW threaded glassware is not exclusive to Ace, I remember using threaded glassware kit supplied from Phywe (shott or jena glassware )
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undead_alchemist
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Kimble bought out Bomex.
Also glassware sold under the VWR brand are made in India by Borosil.
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Sauron
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| Quote: | Originally posted by amrhamed2
I like threaded glassware from Ace but I think that kimble is more outstanding company ...
BTW ,they all mimic each other ......for example look at the pressure vessel ..it is now sold by chemglass,Ace and kimble
BTW threaded glassware is not exclusive to Ace, I remember using threaded glassware kit supplied from Phywe (shott or jena glassware )
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Lots of companies make GL and GPI threaded (male threaded) glass joints. But as far as I know Ace is only one to make internally threaded glass
joints. Someone said that Chemglass will make them on special order but this is not mentioned in their catalog. Labglass shows a much smaller
selection of such threads than does Ace and their prices are about same as Ace.
A look at the thread forms will mreveal why the Ace-thred (tm) joint is better for vacuum/pressure applications. My only criticism of these is their
price.
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amrhamed2
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I think all the big companies are gonna make the same (i.e internal thread class of glassware)
U see the pressure tube of kimble kontes ....it has an internal thread system and the same applies for chemglass
amr h mahmoud
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Sauron
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I do business with Kontes but they have an agent in this country and I must go through them. This means I pay about 50% more than the US list price,
for which premium they take care of shipping and importation.
Chemglass sells to me for about 1/3 of that (1/2 of US list price for Ace, Kimble etc.) but I have to transport and import myself. I can assure you
that Chemglass is a better bargain. The duty is 5%.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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