Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3695
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
What can I do with Sulphur Dioxide gas ?
I am about to set up a smakk scale sulphur dioxide gas generator,
to reduce chloroauric acid to gold,
I shall try making a little Oleum just to see if I can do it
as I have an O2 concentrator and some Pt
any other ideas ?
Edit : I'm thinking of sodium hydroxide as a general purpose scrubber for waste/exhaust SO2,
I should get sodium sulphite as a by-product,
which can be used in the next SO2 generator batch run instead of / with sodium metabisulphite.
any hints/tips/alternatives ?
[Edited on 18-7-2018 by Sulaiman]
|
|
|
CobaltChloride
Hazard to Others
Posts: 239
Registered: 3-3-2018
Location: Romania
Member Is Offline
|
|
There's a few interstening reactions with this gas. Firstly, it can be reduced with zinc powder to dithionite, a very interesting reducing agent.
http://www.prepchem.com/synthesis-of-sodium-dithionite/
Also, it can reduce nitrite to hydroxylamine, which is also very interesting.
http://www.prepchem.com/synthesis-of-hydroxylamine-hydrochlo... (I know this doesn't use SO2, but I think SO2 would be better in some ways as
using it avoids adding additional chemicals besides the nitrite)
Scrubbing with NaOH seems to be the best option for removing this gas though.
[Edited on 18-7-2018 by CobaltChloride]
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
My recommendation target the creation of HSO5- (like in Oxone).
Start with SO2, water and passing air/O2 through the formed H2SO3 in the presence of a hydroxyl radical source (like by action of sunlight near to an
ocean, large lake,.. on aqueous nitrite or a photo active oxide like MgO, ZnO, TiO2,..or a mix of an oxide like ZnO in the presence of dissolved N2O).
Per one source: "Rate Constants for Reactions of Inorganic Radicals in Aqueous Solution" by P. Neta and Robert E. Huie, and also this reference: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/j100143a031?journalCode... . To quote from Neta:
"3.11. Sulfite Radical
The .SO3− radical is most commonly produced by the reaction of .OH with sulfite or bisulfite.
.OH + SO3(2−) → OH− + .SO3−"
And further:
"3.13. Peroxomonosulfate Radical
The SO5.− radical is produced by the reaction of .SO3− with O2.
.SO3− + O2 → SO5.−"
Also:
"The SO5.− radical is a stronger oxidant than .SO3−, with an estimated redox potential of 1.1 V at pH 7.39. It is still quite selective in its
reactions, oxidizing hydroxybenzenes at high pH rapidly but only slowly or not at all at low pH."
Now, one can convert the SO5•- to HSO5- by way of HSO3- or a transition metal:
Fe(ll)/Cu(l) + SO5•- + H+ --> Fe(lll)/Cu(ll) + HSO5- (see p. 363 at https://books.google.com/books?id=RAJMmvbfyzgC&pg=PA363&... )
Apparently, however, one of the best way to activate peroxymonosulfate (PMS) is siderite, (Fe,Mg,Ca,Mn,Zn,Co)CO3, where Fe, Mn and cobalt are the key
metal ions (apparently, a trace of the toxic cobalt ions in the presence of HSO5- is capable of producing the powerful sulfate radical anion, see
"COBALT/PEROXYMONOSULFATE AND RELATED OXIDIZING REAGENTS FOR WATER TREATMENT" a thesis by Georgios P. Anipsitakis, https://etd.ohiolink.edu/rws_etd/document/get/ucin1130533674... ). The ensuing advanced oxidation process can then produce both the usual sulfate
radicals (see https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004313540... ) and the even more powerful hydroxyl radical (see "Activation of Persulfates
Using Siderite as a Source of Ferrous Ions: Sulfate Radical Production, Stoichiometric Efficiency, and Implications", at https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acssuschemeng.7b03948 ).
The siderite functions as a source of Fe2+ (think fenton with KHSO5 replacing H2O2) with the sulfate radicals as the major active radical. In place of
siderite, also consider FeS2 (Fool's Gold, see for example, https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie100740d to which I would also pump in air/O2 to expand possible reactive oxygen species creation. Further,
I would suspect adding the Bravoite variation of Fool's Gold, which contains toxic nickel and cobalt, would be favorable).
Example of activation reactions with cobalt ions (which are toxic):
Co2+ + HSO5- --> Co3+ + SO4•- + OH- (2.1 from thesis)
Co3+ + HSO5- --> Co2+ + SO5•- + H+ (1.11 from thesis)
Note, the action of the sulfate radical anion, for example, on bromide (or other halogens, in reverse order of their reactivity, so the action on
iodide is faster than with bromide...) proceeds as follows:
SO4•- + Br- --> SO4(2-) + •Br
•Br + •Br = Br2
•Br + Br- = •Br2-
Br2 + Br- = Br3-
Note, the sulfate radical anion is weaker than the hydroxyl radical. Hypochlorous acid activated by say cuprous creates the more powerful hydroxyl
radical. In some cases, PMS is not recommended for swimming pools as it does not completely kill off problem microbes.
[Edited on 18-7-2018 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3695
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
@CobaltChloride: Looks interesting, thanks.
Honestly, I doubt I'll try just yet but thanks anyway.
@AJKOER: Too radical !
I was hoping for some simple/interesting stuff,
when my brain un-melts I'll read the post again as I did not get a coherent picture on first or second reading,
but it looks like a lot of mental and physical work required
and I'm not currently in that kind of mood, but thanks anyway.
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sulaiman:
Yes the theory gets intense, but the hype on experimenting with HSO5- on SM is up there also.
Reagent friendly things like sunlight, laughing gas (available at Walmart), ZnO (easy made several ways including in a battery cell of HOCl, and a
more noble metal, like a Cu/Ni coin, and a touch of sea salt), SO2 and water.
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8013
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Another interesting one may be making SO2Cl2.
Mix equal volumes of dried Cl2 (dried with CaCl2) and dried SO2 and pass this mix over activated carbon. This makes SO2Cl2. You do not need to have
exact stoichiometric ratios of gas and it also is not necessary to exclude air. Just keep everything dry. If you have excess SO2, then add extra Cl2
and once you have excess Cl2 add SO2. You hence can add the gases in an alternating fashion.
Another suitable catalyst for this reaction is camphor, instead of activated carbon.
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3695
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
It would be nice to have a little SO2Cl2 as I already have some SOCl2
and I will also be setting up a Cl2 generator later as I am not satisfied with my previous Au2Cl6 (Dragon's Blood)
synthesis.
Thanks
|
|
|
TalkStory
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 19-7-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
And if you react these 2 gases with water, you will get HCl and H2SO4. Nobody ever done this on youtube or anywhere.
I was able to find NaCl and Na2S2O7 much more easily than H2SO4, so would use them as reactants.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/i160061a009
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3695
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
SO2Cl2 decomposes in water to HCl and H2SO4 (hydrates) so its sort of a mixed-acid-anhydride.
I've never synthesised anything from purely gas phase reactants
(other than burning gases in air)
and I am wary of the total volumes of potentially toxic gasses produced and consumed during the process of synthesising e.g. 100ml liquid
SO2Cl2 (minimum 28 litres each of SO2 and Cl2)
but that should be manageable, especially if I make a more sensible 10ml only 
but I don't like tiny bottles .....
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2787
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
SO2 reacts with some aryldiazonium halides to generate the corresponding sulfonyl halides. If the arene has electron-withdrawing substituents, the
corresponding sulfonyl chloride will be more electrophilic than tosyl chloride. Orgsyn demonstrates this with trifluoromethylbenzenediazonium
chloride.
Actually, the p-trifluoromethylaniline might not be too hard to obtain, if you can manage to coax a nucleophilic aromatic substitution out of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachlorobenzotrifluoride
Not sure what to do next, although you may be able to generate enol sulfonates and activated amides, etc.
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Here are two paths to SO3 from SO2.
First, generate singlet oxygen and let it react with SO2. The added presence of O2 should be beneficial. Source: see https://books.google.com/books?id=EvsbBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA209&... .
SO2 + O2(1P) --> SO3 + O(3P)
------------------------------------
The second method involves NO2 in a reportedly slow reaction at RT:
NO2(g) + SO2(g) --> NO(g) + SO3(g) (slow) (see https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/questions-and-answers/ni... )
which creates SO3. Interestingly, I recall a report of passing SO2 over nitrous acid (HNO2) forming SO3. Here is a quote from Atomistry.com on HNO2
acting on SO2 to quote:
"Stannous chloride is converted into stannic chloride, sulphuretted hydrogen into sulphur, sulphur dioxide into sulphur trioxide. Iodine is liberated
from potassium iodide"
Also, per Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_acid ), to quote:
"In anything other than very dilute, cold solutions, nitrous acid rapidly decomposes into nitrogen dioxide, nitric oxide, and water:
2 HNO2 → NO2 + NO + H2O "
With added oxygen, it is likely that passing SO2 + O2 over HNO2 forms SO3 as:
NO2(g) + SO2(g) + 1/2 O2 (g) --> (NO(g) + 1/2 O2) + SO3
NO (g) + 1/2 O2 --> NO2 (g)
Net: SO2 (g) + 1/2 O2 (g) --NO,O2,NO2--> SO3 (see p. 43 at https://mymission.lamission.edu/userdata%5Cpaziras%5CChem102... )
where I recall higher temperatures accelerate the above reaction rate. Note: acidified NaNO2 could be a source here for HNO2.
[Edited on 20-7-2018 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3695
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
@AJKOER:
Have you got a reference for a reportedly fast version 
preferably fun, quick and easy.
@clearly_not_atara:
I deliberately have no fluorine- or fluoride-containing reactants ... maybe one day.
I would not know how to assay or use the product 
Despite my mostly negative responses 
I do appreciate the suggestions
... Thanks
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2787
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
Another thought: SO2Cl2 can be used to prepare sulfamide, SO2(NH2)2, which can then be alkylated at nitrogen to prepare symmetrical secondary amines.
Hydrolysis of sulfonamides is possible with HBr in the presence of a bromine scavenger; HBr protonates and then reduces the sulfonyl group.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01111a007?journalCode...
Unsymmetrical secondary amines can also be made from the sulfamide corresponding to the primary amine, via SO2(NHR)2 + 2 R'X etc. If a cyclic product
is obtained with ethylenediamine, you can even prepare the ligand N,N'-dimethylethylenediamine, which IIRC is otherwise produced by reduction of the
corresponding oxamide.
That then catalyzes the condensation of acetone with nitromethane to 3-nitroisobutylene:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00373a007?journalCode...
and, with CuI, many Goldberg-type reactions, e.g.:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cjoc.2013004...
[Edited on 20-7-2018 by clearly_not_atara]
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  | @AJKOER:
Have you got a reference for a reportedly fast version
preferably fun, quick and easy.
Despite my mostly negative responses
I do appreciate the suggestions
... Thanks |
Yes, I added a Singlet oxygen path as it is fun to prepare and one see the glowing in the dark!
|
|
|
vmelkon
National Hazard
Posts: 669
Registered: 25-11-2011
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: autoerotic asphyxiation
|
|
If you bubble SO2 in CuSO4 solution, I assume you get Chevreuil's salt, which is an insoluble solid and has a beautiful red
color. I haven't seen many copper compounds that have a red color, except for Cu2O.
[Edited on 25-7-2018 by vmelkon]
Signature ==== Is this my youtube page? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA5PYtul5aU
We must attach the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance and give a few good jolts.
Yes my evolutionary friends. We are all homos here. |
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
A third would be to reduce it with sulphur. (Don't worry Ajkoer, it's probably a radical reaction)
Another option would be to dissolve it in water (not very practical but...) and then dilute it down to make 50% sulphuric acid.
Then heat that with scrap copper to get SO2
This also gives you CuSO4.
I'm told you might be able to do something interesting with that too.
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3695
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by vmelkon | If you bubble SO2 in CuSO4 solution, I assume you get Chevreuil's salt, which is an insoluble solid and has a beautiful red
color. I haven't seen many copper compounds that have a red color, except for Cu2O.
|
Thanks, added to the list.
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Just came across this, SO2 to sodium thiosulfate, to quote:
"The absorption [referring to SO2] takes place at pH 6.2 in the presence of sodium bisulfide/polysulfide to convert the sulfite to sodium thiosulfate,
the formation of which controls the oxidation of sulfite to sulfate, an undesirable by-product."
Source: Sulfur Dioxide Absorption and Conversion to Sulfur. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231300134_Sulfur_Di... [accessed Aug 07 2018].
On the prep of Na2S, see https://patents.google.com/patent/CN101337661A/en .
|
|
|
mackolol
Hazard to Others
Posts: 459
Registered: 26-10-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Funky
|
|
You can make some sulphuric acid by the copper chloride process, which NurdRage presented in one of his videos. You bubble so2 to the solution of
CuCl2. The CuCl2 is reduced to CuCl and and solution of so2 is oxidised to h2so4. Then you regenerate cucl to cucl2 by bubbling air through solution.
The process is fully catalytic and uses only air so2 and water.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
