underground
National Hazard
Posts: 703
Registered: 10-10-2013
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
|
|
Borosilitate glass broke on heating
I bought some battery acid (30% H2SO4) and i was trying to concentrate it. I used a tripod and above it, an iron plate, so the glass will come in
contact with the plate and not with the flame. I wanted to do it outside that is why i did that, i could not do it close to my home cause of the fumes
and it is a bit populated area.
During the concentration phase, my glass cracked. It was a 5L beaker. Anyone have any idea why this happened? I cant buy nowadays 98% SA without an
invoice unfortunately, so that was my only way to get it.
Also if anyone have any page so i could buy chemicals online from Europe, pls share it. It cost me more with that way and it needs to be concentrated
too...
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Could be anything. Are you sure it was borosilicate glass? Many fake products exist; the story here about the "pyrox" beaker breaking and exploding
comes to mind. What is the history of the beaker? Had it been dropped before? Over time tiny cracks can get bigger and bigger until one day the whole
thing fails. Was there enough liquid in the beaker, to prevent the glass from developing hot spots? Lots of possibilities, and sadly you'll never know
for sure.
|
|
|
weilawei
Hazard to Others
Posts: 130
Registered: 3-12-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
A cheap polariscope (around 25$) would allow you to see strain in glassware for future experiments, in order to select pieces less likely to crack.
I'm also a big fan of sand baths. I can afford to be patient, and I've yet to break anything by heating in 15 years of doing it that way.
|
|
|
Σldritch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 309
Registered: 22-3-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How big was your beaker? If it was not full the lower part would get much hotter than the part above and crack the glass. I have broken microwave
dishes in a similar way. Borosilicate glass is not immune to thermal expansion.
|
|
|
LearnedAmateur
National Hazard
Posts: 513
Registered: 30-3-2017
Location: Somewhere in the UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: Free Radical
|
|
In future, I’d recommend using an RBF for strong heating. I’ve broken several top brand beakers using a flame but never a well made RBF, even when
immediately hit with a strong oxidising flame from a small brazing torch in order to distill liquids boiling over 150C. The lack of sharper corners,
which you obviously get in a beaker, means that heat is better and more easily distributed and stress forces are even and far lower.
In chemistry, sometimes the solution is the problem.
It’s been a while, but I’m not dead! Updated 7/1/2020. Shout out to Aga, we got along well.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
You need to spread the heat out evenly, avoiding hot spots and taking temperature up and down reasonably slowly so as to avoid wide differentials in
temperature in different parts of the system.
A long time ago I bought a cheap used electrical deep fryer at a garage sale which had a control dial calibrated up to 450F. To dry out 30% acid I
would put about an inch of clean sand in the bottom of the fryer, place a 5000ml beaker full of new battery electrolyte on the sand and fill the rest
of the space around the breaker with more sand, right to the top of the fryer. I would also wrap the several inches of beaker extending above my
impromptu "sand bath" with fiberglass batting to insulate It.
It took an hour to heat up the acid to the point of starting to boil off some water. About half a day to get to the "scary ammounts of dense white
fumes are blowing down wind, oh my GOD!" stage.
A couple of observarions:
1: You won't get to 98% like this. After 84% or so, all you do is lose acid right along with the water. Sure does make an impressive fog bank though!
Check the density or titrate and see what concentration you really end up with, don't assume.
80% or so sulfuric acid was good enough for most of the things I wanted to to do back then, I usually just had to account for the extra water and use
more acid. If it won't do for you- Check the threads on oleum, especially the safety information.
2: Common quartz sand is harder than most glassware. I wrecked a 5000ml beaker by processing about 6 gallons of 30% battery acid, the sand scratched
it up to the point I had to retire it for my peace of mind. You REALLY don't want to have the breaker decide to break while handling very hot
concentrated acid.
Now, I would use something like Aluminum pellets/BB shot, etc. in place of sand- a "shot bath" to save wear on the glass.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
Swinfi2
Hazard to Others
Posts: 131
Registered: 19-2-2018
Location: England
Member Is Offline
Mood: Catalytic
|
|
I use some polarised sunglasses and my phone, it was free as I already had them 
|
|
|
VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fullerenes
|
|
Large beakers and flasks are delicate and break very easily. The bigger the structure the more probable it is there will be a fault.
Quote: Originally posted by weilawei  |
I'm also a big fan of sand baths. I can afford to be patient, and I've yet to break anything by heating in 15 years of doing it that way.
|
I second this. Directly heating glassware, especially really large pieces, can be dangerous. The sand allows for even and gentle heating. It also
helps contain things in the event of a spill.
I recently tried distilling sulfuric acid and nearly blew up my distillation rig. The whole thing exploded when the acid flash boiled. My next attempt
will not involve distillation. I am not trying that again.
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3247
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Beakers give a lot of strain at the edges, wouldn't recommend them at high temperatures or if you're just trying to concentrate down a liquid.
|
|
|
underground
National Hazard
Posts: 703
Registered: 10-10-2013
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
|
|
The beaker was like this one, but ofc not the same brand
https://www.wiltronics.com.au/wp-content/uploads/images/scie...
It actually clearly cracked at the bottom all around separating the bottom from the beaker becoming hollow like a pipe. Hopefully i was doing it
outside and i din ton use any electric source  . It had never before fall down
or anything. I thing it was my 1st time doing it with this beaker and i don't remember to have used it again on heat, i bought it for that specific
reason. It was almost full, like 3L of liquid inside. I was thinking if clay beaker would be better.
[Edited on 25-5-2018 by underground]
|
|
|
wg48
National Hazard
Posts: 821
Registered: 21-11-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by underground | The beaker was like this one, but ofc not the same brand
https://www.wiltronics.com.au/wp-content/uploads/images/scie...
It actually clearly cracked at the bottom all around separating the bottom from the beaker becoming hollow like a pipe. Hopefully i was doing it
outside and i din ton use any electric source . It had never before fall down
or anything. I thing it was my 1st time doing it with this beaker and i don't remember to have used it again on heat, i bought it for that specific
reason. It was almost full, like 3L of liquid inside. I was thinking if clay beaker would be better.
[Edited on 25-5-2018 by underground] |
The usual recommedation for a flask is to heat atleast up to the top of the liquid.
|
|
|
underground
National Hazard
Posts: 703
Registered: 10-10-2013
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yea but it cracket at the bottom, not at the middle or smthing like that, it cracked exactly at the point where it was heated, at the very bottom
P.S. Anyone got any page here i can buy online H2SO4 in Europe ? e-bay and amazon does not have it
[Edited on 26-5-2018 by underground]
|
|
|
wg48
National Hazard
Posts: 821
Registered: 21-11-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by underground |
Yea but it cracket at the bottom, not at the middle or smthing like that, it cracked exactly at the point where it was heated, at the very bottom
P.S. Anyone got any page here i can buy online H2SO4 in Europe ? e-bay and amazon does not have it
[Edited on 26-5-2018 by underground] |
Yes because you did not heat the sides.
|
|
|
Fluorite
Hazard to Others
Posts: 138
Registered: 26-12-2018
Location: United Arab Emirates
Member Is Offline
|
|
If I used a sand/oil bath can I boil nitric, sulfuric acid in glass bottle like this?
|
|
|
ArbuzToWoda
Hazard to Self
Posts: 98
Registered: 15-7-2020
Member Is Offline
|
|
No. That is a terrible and dangerous idea. Invest 5 bucks in a round bottom borosilicate flask.
|
|
|
MadHatter
International Hazard
Posts: 1339
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying retirement
|
|
Dangerous
Fluorite, that appears to be a standard
soda-lime glass bottle. I can't imagine
that standing up to H2SO4's BP of
337C(639F). I agree with ArbuzToWoda, that
an RBF made from borosilicate(BORO 3.3) is
what you really need.
Fluorite, I've seen from some of your other
posts that certain labware is illegal in your
part of the world. Truly ashame because
the powers that be are highly suspicious of
amateur chemistry. I wish you luck.
[Edited on 2020/11/12 by MadHatter]
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
|
|
|
yobbo II
National Hazard
Posts: 764
Registered: 28-3-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you heat and cool down very slowly it may be OK. Assume it will break and take necessary precautions.
If you were to put the bottle into an oven and heat to 300C over a period of one hour it would not break.
Its not the actually 'the heat' that breaks glass but uneven heat. The thermal expansion will cause the hot and colder parts to expand a different
amount and cause stress which causes the glass to crack.
Yob
|
|
|
Clear_horizons_glass
Harmless
Posts: 42
Registered: 30-9-2019
Location: Pullman, WA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Glass
|
|
Is it particularly cold where you are at? That can make a difference if you're doing it outside.
The beaker could have not been annealed properly in initial manufacturing, or perhaps it was previously heated unevenly. It could have also been
heated up to fast or cooled down to fast. If it has a particularly thick bottom, that would also make sense that it would break at the bottom, as
thicker pieces of glass will naturally cool down and heat up at a different rate than thinner pieces. On top of that, any 90 degree angles or less
really stresses out glass.
A good RBF is way more ideal for evenly spreading out heat, and the round shape naturally allows for more flexing to relieve stress than a 90 degree
bottom to a beaker. The wall thickness will also be more even, which allows for better stress relief.
Clear Horizons Laboratory Glassblowing Services
-------------------------------------------------------------
www.clearhorizonsglass.com
Phone and Fax:
(855) LAB-GLAS
(855) 522-4527
Have a glass project you want made? email me at
info@clearhorizonsglass.com
or message us here |
with a U2U |
message |
\/
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
