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Magpie
lab constructor
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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evil_lurker says:
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Others have posted pictures of manufacturing phosphorus. Both are List I controlled substances
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I don't see phosphorus on either List I or List II. Am I missing something?
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Sauron
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That's an important distinction.
But one lost all too often in the night and fog.
As far as I am concerned requiring someone to have an ID card/roster of purchases and reporting purchases of listed chemicals to DEA 9by seller and or
buyer) is a Fifth Amendment violation (against self incrimination) because of the presumption that so much of this and so much of that adds up to drug
making activity.
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pantone159
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Phosphorus is probably missing as the List is a little out of date, it was only added about 6 years ago. (Along with hypophosphite.) Otherwise, the
lists look about as I remember them. (There is also a separate, explicit list of 'watched' chems, which includes e.g. HgCl2, formic acid, pyridine,
Et2HN.)
My understanding of the USA laws regarding List I chems: (please correct me if I am wrong, I really do want to understand this part!)
Not in any way illegal to possess, or even to purchase. However, the seller must keep detailed records of all sales of such materials, to be turned
over to DEA. In practice, a hobby chemist will have no real chance of getting a List I substance, nobody that sells them will sell to *you*, and
posession would be extremely suspicious (and might well trigger 'conspiracy to manufacture ...' charges.)
Even in Texas, posession of similar materials (TX has its own list of restricted chems which is approximately List I), is ok, however, recieving them
from another is not (without a permit) so purchasing is not legal here, but this is state law, not federal.
List II chems have similar restrictions as List I, but only when purchased in amounts over some threshhold (e.g. 200 L drums) which won't affect hobby
chemists.
Now, forgetting law, and returning to chemistry, which is much more interesting...
I am interested to see photos of safrole. It is a chemical substance, the Merck index has an entry for it, I fail to see what is wrong with
descriptions (e.g. images) of its physical properties. Really, I want to smell some of it, but I don't think you can post smells with today's
technology (sigh).
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Nicodem
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| Quote: | Originally posted by pantone159
I am interested to see photos of safrole. It is a chemical substance, the Merck index has an entry for it, I fail to see what is wrong with
descriptions (e.g. images) of its physical properties. Really, I want to smell some of it, but I don't think you can post smells with today's
technology (sigh). |
Why the hell would anybody be interested in seeing photos of a colorless oily liquid?
I suspect Conducter is only trying to annoy you all with his 'request for permission', which you all failed to notice.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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pantone159
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
You might be thinking of saccharin, but that is off the market for decades. Meanwhile safrole is a carcinogen and FDA banned its use in root beer. Or
anything else. |
I believe that saccharain is still on the market in the USA. I personally avoid any and all artificial sweeteners, so I am not positive.
Anyways, I hardly count the FDA's imprimateur as my sole judgement as to what is safe to eat.
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Sauron
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There are a variety of governmental and non-governmental, international groups who do carcinogenicity studies, safrole has long been recognized as a
carcinogen or do you dispute this?
That aside, now that it has been demonstrated that Levi misled us all about safrole being a "controlled substance" which it is NOT, there is
absolutely no reason why it can't or shouldn't be freely discussed here or anywhere else.
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Eclectic
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Let's all be as "Suspicious" as possible, while being rigorously adherent to the law. Maybe wear star of David armbands as well.
Pantone159: You have sassafrass trees in Tx, don't you? Just smell some of the root. Also, there is an ornamental plant related to star anise with
very fragrant leaves from the safrole content.
http://www.floridata.com/ref/I/illi_par.cfm
(Illicium. Go figure...)
[Edited on 4-13-2007 by Eclectic]
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Sauron
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That remark is in rather poor taste, @eclectic.
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Levi
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
That aside, now that it has been demonstrated that Levi misled us all [. . .] |
Yes, that's right and I'd do it again, too!
*Levi puts on his horns and runs around laughing hysterically*
What's with the finger pointing? I don't dispute the fact that I posted the word "schedule" in place of the word "list" but you make it sound like an
intentional act.
[Edited on 13-4-2007 by Levi]
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Sauron
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I never said you did so intentionally, nevertheless you did so, with resulting train wreck of a thread, much ado about nothing.
Of course, the primary culprit is still conducter.
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Eclectic
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@Sauron: I was alluding to the legend of King Christian of Denmark having EVERYONE wear armbands when the NAZI's said the Jews had to. 'Twas ment as
an anti Fascist sentiment. Apologies to anyone who thought it was anti Semetic...
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dedalus
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Cancer from sassafras?
Horsepuckey.
I drank sassafras tea for some years. Maybe if you drank nothing else, even water, for 30 years.
It's only regarded as such because of the Delaney clause. You can't add it to things. You can still buy gumbo file, and that has
sassafras in it.
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dedalus
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
There are a variety of governmental and non-governmental, international groups who do carcinogenicity studies, safrole has long been recognized as a
carcinogen or do you dispute this?
That aside, now that it has been demonstrated that Levi misled us all about safrole being a "controlled substance" which it is NOT, there is
absolutely no reason why it can't or shouldn't be freely discussed here or anywhere else. |
Really? But, there are carcinogens, and then there are carcinogens. It's not like a nitrosamine, or bis-dichloromethyl ether.
I posted what I did before seeing what you'd written. I don't wish to be rude. But, I have a feeling you'd find it in lots of essential oils, as well
as many other organic compounds with the same level of carcinogenicity.
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Sauron
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@dedalus So? Your point is?
@eclectic, that's a slight improvement, but in that case, just who are you calling a fascist?
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Eclectic
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Jack booted drug and terror warriors who care nothing for individual rights and civil liberties. Proponents of suspicion equals guilt if there is
even a 1% chance, and those who believe that any one who CAN violate the law WILL. Those whose only tool is a hammer, and therefore see every problem
as a nail...
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Sauron
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I look around and see none of those present. So I guess you are just venting.
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Eclectic
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Yeah. Don't like the idea that an interest in chemistry or technology is "Suspicious" or illegal. Damn jack booted bureaucratic ignorant twits...
(the thread is already a train wreck...) 
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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You don't need permission to post any pictures of purified chemical substances here. Sucrose, tetanospasmin, safrole, plutonium, whatever -- all are
fine. The risk is all to the poster.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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