Xenodius
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CIA Method-- I did use search
Hey.
I am new to the field of pyrotechnics, and don't know a whole lot except about 6-7 hours of reading on the subject, 1 year of college chemistry, (We
barely touched solutions/precipitates/solubility, so this stuff here is beyond me) and what I know through friends.
Problems:
1) Its called the CIA Method... Good luck Googling it.
2) It didn't work when I followed the general steps given by a friend I know: "The "CIA method" involves dissolving the salt of the pyrotechnic
mixture in water then adding it to the insoluble ingredients. Cooled isopropyl alcohol is then added to precipitate the salt out and onto your
insoluble ingredients, "plastering" the salt all over the place. The aim is to better mix the stuff together so it reacts faster."
To me, "cool" is 4-5 celcius. Nothing happened when I added a nearly-saturated solution of CuCl2 to some smokeless powder and then added the
isopropyl alcohol. I am interested as well in precipitating the CuCl2, period since the method I use to make mine leaves it in a fairly low
concentration of solution, and unless its in front of a fireplace or something it takes ages to evaporate. (My mom hates that, its smelly... I am 15,
if you were wondering) so any help on that aspect would also be appreciated.
What I am asking: Can anyone give more exact steps/hits/tips on the CIA method? I will be making a lot of a KN03 + Al mixture very
soon and would love to add some colorants to it, and buying LiC03 is a lot more than making CuCl2. 
Sounds like it works well for precipitating any salt out of a solution too, so I think I will use it for simply replacing long evaporation times.
[Edited on 13-2-2007 by Xenodius]
[Edited on 13-2-2007 by Xenodius]
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bereal511
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First off, I'd like to welcome you to ScienceMadness. Hope you learn a lot from this website, there's a lot of good stuff just lying around.
Generally speaking, you're not going to get a whole lot of color with a KNO3 + Al mixture, mainly because it'll be too hot to give off light in the
lower ranges that lithium or copper will handle. That will be the case with many of the metal pyrotechnic fuels. Most colors for pyrotechnic
mixtures are only expressed under a certain temperature range, with blue being the most difficult to achieve. Generally this is done with low-heating
organic fuels, such as hexamine.
CIA method is pretty much only useful for making black powder. I've never heard of it being used for anything else but that. If you want to go
through that route, here are the instructions I found from a few pyrotechnic sites:
1. Take your raw charcoal and crush it with a hammer between two sheets of paper. Wear old clothing and do this outside, since it is very messy. Sieve
the charcoal through a coarse sieve (about 30 mesh).
2. Weigh the charcoal. To every 100 grams of charcoal, add 67 grams of sulfur, and fill 1/4th of your ball mill with this mixture. Put the media in
and let the mill run for 8 hours.
3. While the mill is running, place 600 ml isopropylalcohol in a large container for every 100 grams of charcoal/sulfur mix you have, and place it in
the fridge.
4. When you open your mill, you should find an incredibly fine black/greyish powder. Sieve this to get the media of the mill out, and weigh it. In a
separate container, place 75 grams of potassium nitrate for every 25 grams of charcoal/sulfur powder you have. Put the potassium nitrate in an old
pan, and add 40 ml tap water for every 100 grams of potassium nitrate.
5. Place the pan on the stove and bring it to a boil while continuesly stirring. When the solution starts boiling, start adding small amounts of water
while stirring all the time untill all the potassium nitrate has dissolved.
6. Add an extra 10 ml tap water and the charcoal/sulfur mixture to the boiling potassium nitrate solution. Stir the charcoal/sulfur mixture in the
solution. Make sure there are no dry clumbs left.
7. By now, your isopropylalcohol should have cooled to at least 0 deg C or colder. Take the isopropylalcohol outside, and pour the potasium nitrate
solution/charcoal/sulfur into the cold isopropylalcohol. Make sure there are no sources of ignition nearby! Stir for a few seconds.
8. Cool the mixture again to 0 deg C at the fastest rate you can. The faster the better.
9. Filter the mixture through an old cloth, and squeeze to get all the liquid out. Discard the black liquid.
10. Spread the black mush out on a sheet of paper, and dry it in the sun. Don't try to dry it inside since it will produce a lot of flammable vapour
from the ispropylalcohol. When it is still slightly wet to the touch, press it through a sieve to corn it. Then dry it further.
11. When dry, sieve the black powder through a few sieves to get several fractions for different purposes.
Much easier to just ballmill, CIA method is pretty laborious. You should try http://xsorbit2.com/users/apcforum/index.cgi. They have a lot of good pyrotechnic information.
Agh, I forgot to add, don't ballmill any mixtures other than blackpowder together. You should grind powders seperately from oxidizers and fuels.
[Edited on 13-2-2007 by bereal511]
[Edited on 13-2-2007 by bereal511]
As an adolescent I aspired to lasting fame, I craved factual certainty, and I thirsted for a meaningful vision of human life -- so I became a
scientist. This is like becoming an archbishop so you can meet girls.
-- Matt Cartmill
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GhostofUnintentionalChaos
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CuCl2 is incredibly soluble in alcohols. You probably had a wash of bright green liquid of you added too much. I suggest that you obtain dry CuCl2,
dissolve as much as possible in alcohol, and mix that into the powder. Spread it thin and place it outside and if it isn't too cold, the mix will be
bone dry in a few hours. I happen to have a half-gallon of CuCl2 sitting in front of me right now, which will partially be made into Cu(NO3)2. If you
can get your hands on two ingredients, Calcium chloride and copper sulfate, you will be very well off making it in bulk. The Calcium chloride will
dissolve in a very small amount of water (and gets very hot). Add an appropriate amount of boiling hot copper sulfate solution (the solubility rises
immensely when at 100C as compared to room temperature so you can use much less water). This is placed in a filter to remove the calcium sulfate ppt.
Wash the CaSO4 at least once with a small amount of water to minimize loss. You will not be adding as much water as you think, as the calcium sulfate
hydrates and removes liquid from the original mix when it forms. The remaining mix should probably be evaporated in an oven or outside to prepare it
for later use. If you have extra, dip pinecones or bits of wood, or even paper towels into the alcohol mix and let them dry. Thrown into a fireplace
or campfire, they burn a mix of turquoise, blue, and green. These make dirt cheap gifts as well. Calcium Chloride is available as road de-icer at the
hardware store or as a room dehumidifier in little containers. Copper sulfate is available as tree root killer in the hardware store, usually near
plumbing.
PS: Copper salts are notorious for eating through or at least destroying the surface of effectively every metal bowl you could put them in. Keep the
stuff in plastic or glass. One stainless steel pot and you learn your lesson.
[Edited on 13-2-2007 by GhostofUnintentionalChaos]
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Xenodius
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Feels: Like a grateful newbie
Okay, thank you for the heads up on coloring KN03 + Al... Sounds like if I want to make a mixture to produce lots of colored flame then candy
propellant (KN03 4 parts, sugar 1 part) sounds like the way to go, or I still have about 5-6 ounces of smokeless powder. Thanks a ton!
I guess my problem is really getting a hold of major flash powder components (Potassium permanganate/perchlorate) since those are used in all the
colored compositions, and as of yet I don't know where to get them due to the blasted CPSC!
Searching for "Sources" and "Suppliers" yielded nothing.
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bereal511
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Ebay will be your best friend in that respect.
Simple searches on potassium permanganate and potassium perchlorate yields relatively reasonable prices for those chemicals. Just don't kill
yourself.
As an adolescent I aspired to lasting fame, I craved factual certainty, and I thirsted for a meaningful vision of human life -- so I became a
scientist. This is like becoming an archbishop so you can meet girls.
-- Matt Cartmill
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GhostofUnintentionalChaos
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Candy propellant produces huge volumes of smoke and almost no flame. Supposedly, you can add metal powder to this to make sparks or ultrafine powders
to make the flame larger. I don't have a lot of experience with pyrotechnics in particular, but I have made the candy propellant.
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Xenodius
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@ Gost of Unintentional Chaos:
I make enormous quantities of CuCl2 solute by simply mixing H202, HCl, and copper wire (We are adding on to our home atm, so I have at least a
dozen pounds of wire). Creates a small amount of heat and reacts completely in a few hours-- if you measure correctly, it supersaturates the
solution, and thats using 3% H202.
Stoichiometrically, using standard 31.45% ($6/gal) muriatic acid, use 15.9% acid, and 84.1% (Thats the 3% stuff, remember!! Adjust accordingly
if using higher %'s) H202 ($1/473ml), and then I add a few drops extra H202 just to make sure it doesn't end up with any excess HCl. Then, simply
add wire until nothing happens and extract the excess.
This reaction also liberates modest quantities of hydrogen gas.
As for candy propellant... Haven't tried it, I guess I will just make BP!
bereal:
My only concern with eBay is improper packaging-- I don't want spilled/moist or clumpy chemicals!
I did some searching and found that www.firefox-fx.com actually sells potassium perchlorate, quite reasonably. Downside: <1lb orders.
Everyone:
Thanks for your helpful and friendly comments. (I have a lot to learn!)
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roamingnome
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| Quote: |
(We are adding on to our home atm, so I have at least a dozen pounds of wire).
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interesting that as you have material come and go, its becomes an ideal time for a particular experiment.
it could be that i have ADD, but i often change course as serintipidy takes over...
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