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XeonTheMGPony
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Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara  | | Quote: | Hmmm, thanks guys.......... Of all the 'essential' materials, acids are proving most elusive here.
Back to the drawing board so............... |
I have no Earthly idea why anyone thinks the chloralkali process can be carried out at home, is easy (H2 + Cl2 will explode in 99% of rxn conditions
and must be carefully controlled) or really makes any sense at all.
No, seriously: describe how to design a homebuilt reactor to combine H2 and Cl2 in quantity, without catching fire, exploding, or releasing huge
amounts of toxic gas. Don't worry, I'll wait
ZnCl2 hydrolysis by contrast is OTC and could be carried out by a well-trained circus monkey.
[Edited on 13-5-2017 by clearly_not_atara] |
Youd have to be rather inept, I built a functional system at 7!
H2 makes a neat sound when burning in a chlorine atmosphere
chloro alkylie cell, gass scruber > Gas buffer (pressure) > Valves > jar > Needles into jar sealed with good epoxy > Bbq sparker
(electric attached to said needles)
Ignition sequence: flood jar with chlorine, start sparker and admit H2 slowly till a steady flame is going, stop sparker, put output tube into chilled
water, watch bubbles from distance!
Obviously you'll need to adjust the flame to neutral once it is running, and keep it cool (Combustion chamber) I did that by putting it under a slow
stream of water then eventually wrapping it in tubing for less mess.
I discribed the system befor in another thread
[Edited on 29-7-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]
[Edited on 29-7-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]
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clearly_not_atara
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"Looking for cheapest routes to acid synthesis":
$50 worth of valves, $35 for a gas tank, $15 for a tube of epoxy, electrodes (not sure but not cheap), membrane, etc... if you're buying all this
stuff it stops being a homebuilt reactor, doesn't it?
And considering that this setup ends with chlorine in a jar, you're doing that for a few *grams* of HCl. 10 liters of chlorine is going to make about
half of an ounce of HCl... Anf that seems like a generous estimate.
Also, shouldn't you configure the output tube before ignition? Instructions unclear, room full of hydrogen chloride...
I'm just saying, this isn't solving the OP's problem, it's more of a fun electrical project.
[Edited on 30-7-2017 by clearly_not_atara]
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Chemetix
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Cheap I guess is a subjective thing. Acids are by their nature made with highly reactive chemistry and need some specific engineering. It would be
nice to say I made decent amounts of high strength sulphuric from a few jam jars and some cement and epsom salts. Perhaps the holy grail is still out
there with a cunning use of OTC chemicals and some ingenuity; the pursuit of which, is half the fun and challenge.
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XeonTheMGPony
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bought? I made it out of stuff from the junk yard! including the mercury, systolic pump, and such. Only the epoxy was bought! (Hood switches and lid
switches from washing machines for mercury, screw membranes!)
and when you can leave it running so long as you have water and salt who cares?
Like I said I made this when I was young, now days I'd stream line it more for safety, but fact is I told you a way to easily do it! LOL
When you're poor you need to be creative!
[Edited on 30-7-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]
[Edited on 30-7-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]
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Chemetix
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Xeon-I wish there was a pic, sounds kind of an impressive arrangement.
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XeonTheMGPony
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it was neat and probably very very dangerous I do want to rebuild the whole thing but being an adult sucks as every thing eats my damned money up!
Basically think hofman aperatus, only instead of water it was a mercury bridge that was circulated, the gas buffer was inverted bottles in water tanks
then they where fed through some random valves to the reactor, which was rather crude
let the bottles fill up, then run a batch, rinse and repeat.
It would make a meth lab proud I'm sure!
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Melgar
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| Quote: Originally posted by physics inclination |
| Quote: |
Maybe try heating CaSO4 with oxalic acid? Beware of carbon monoxide. |
Yes thanks, I found some similar technique that got sulfuric acid by reacting epsom salt i.e. MgSO4 with oxalic acid, and since magnesium and calcium
are very similar I imagine it would work well.
here's the video I'm referring to if anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePmbRCiLagE |
How has nobody corrected this post yet? Calcium sulfate forms hydrates but is otherwise totally insoluble in water. Magnesium sulfate also forms
hydrates, but is soluble in water. That's a HUGE difference! Considering how cheap magnesium sulfate is drugstores though, it shouldn't increase
your cost much at all.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
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clearly_not_atara
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| Quote: Originally posted by Melgar | | Quote: Originally posted by physics inclination |
| Quote: |
Maybe try heating CaSO4 with oxalic acid? Beware of carbon monoxide. |
Yes thanks, I found some similar technique that got sulfuric acid by reacting epsom salt i.e. MgSO4 with oxalic acid, and since magnesium and calcium
are very similar I imagine it would work well.
here's the video I'm referring to if anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePmbRCiLagE |
How has nobody corrected this post yet? Calcium sulfate forms hydrates but is otherwise totally insoluble in water. Magnesium sulfate also forms
hydrates, but is soluble in water. That's a HUGE difference! Considering how cheap magnesium sulfate is drugstores though, it shouldn't increase
your cost much at all. |
I missed it because it was at the end of a page.
Also seems to be the answer to OP's question, since a certain brand of oxalic acid surface cleaner sits on every store shelf (and for good reason, it
works wonders). Magnesium oxalate is almost totally insoluble in water...
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PirateDocBrown
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| Quote: Originally posted by Melgar | | Quote: Originally posted by physics inclination |
| Quote: |
Maybe try heating CaSO4 with oxalic acid? Beware of carbon monoxide. |
Yes thanks, I found some similar technique that got sulfuric acid by reacting epsom salt i.e. MgSO4 with oxalic acid, and since magnesium and calcium
are very similar I imagine it would work well.
here's the video I'm referring to if anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePmbRCiLagE |
How has nobody corrected this post yet? Calcium sulfate forms hydrates but is otherwise totally insoluble in water. Magnesium sulfate also forms
hydrates, but is soluble in water. That's a HUGE difference! Considering how cheap magnesium sulfate is drugstores though, it shouldn't increase
your cost much at all. |
I did wonder how successful Doug was in this video. And how he got the gypsum out of the flask after.
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