Fidelmios
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Should I use a ball mill for thermite?
Hi all,
So I made up a large batch of Basic copper Carbonate from my waste containers form months of experiments. I threw the Basic in my oven and cooked
until golden brown! Jokes aside, I heated the stuff until I formed 'mostly' copper I Oxide. From this Copper Oxide I plan to make thermite, and
because of my dry method, it was really fluffy, and filled with "air pockets". I figure I can make a cheap ball mill for my aluminum foil, out of a
large pop bottle, a dremel, and some marbles. My question is, is this necessary? I understand the finer the particle size, the better the reaction. Is
the amount appreciable?
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MrHomeScientist
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Particle size is very important for thermite reactions - too large and it's difficult to get ignition or to sustain the reaction. I'm not sure a ball
mill would work for metals though. Wouldn't it just deform the foil rather than pulverizing it? People have had some success with putting foil in a
blender.
Also I'm sure you're aware, but copper thermite can actually be nearly explosive. Be careful with that one.
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DFliyerz
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A ball mill works excellently for aluminum powder from foil.
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Fidelmios
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Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  | Particle size is very important for thermite reactions - too large and it's difficult to get ignition or to sustain the reaction. I'm not sure a ball
mill would work for metals though. Wouldn't it just deform the foil rather than pulverizing it? People have had some success with putting foil in a
blender.
Also I'm sure you're aware, but copper thermite can actually be nearly explosive. Be careful with that one. |
My God, the homescientist himself. I have a little food processor and I planned to just cut through my Aluminum foil, then try to powderize it with
the mill.This is actually my first thermite reaction, I just happened to purchase a 10lb bag of Copper Sulfate that I want to finish working through
to get a higher quality copper sulfate. Thanks for the tips!
On a side note, did you ever try crystallizing Chevreul's salt? If not I would love to make a video on trying to make a large crystal of Chevreul's
Salt.
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ficolas
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Not exactly related to the question but... are you sure a dremel is suitable for a long operation like that, and somewhat heavy?
I once burned a dremel when cutting a thin sheet of metal, because of doing it for a long time 
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Fidelmios
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| Quote: Originally posted by ficolas | Not exactly related to the question but... are you sure a dremel is suitable for a long operation like that, and somewhat heavy?
I once burned a dremel when cutting a thin sheet of metal, because of doing it for a long time |
Honestly I doubt it, I've got a higher quality drill that I can use if needed. This is sort of a temporary setup/learning experience, as I currently
know fuck all about electronics (See my PID thread for fun laughs). I know nothing of changing AC to DC, and ideally I want to do this on the cheap.
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zed
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Make a better Ball Mill. It isn't hard.
A small rock tumbler works well. Marbles probably wont cut it. Ball bearings pack a lot more ooomph, when they fall.
And, a modern pop bottle is probably too flimsy. A length of plumbing pipe will work though.
Sponenberg's plans are floating around out on the web. Might even be a thread here on this site, regarding ball mill construction.
Copper Thermite? Stand back! Way back!
Ah, just returned from the web. It is a new and generous world out there.
Found a very helpful Youtube link. Took about 60 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ball+mill+homem...
[Edited on 14-10-2016 by zed]
[Edited on 14-10-2016 by zed]
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aga
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There are already quite a few designs for Ball Mills to be be found here.
Google for :-
site:sciencemadness.org ball mill
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Fidelmios
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| Quote: Originally posted by zed | Make a better Ball Mill. It isn't hard.
A small rock tumbler works well. Marbles probably wont cut it. Ball bearings pack a lot more ooomph, when they fall.
And, a modern pop bottle is probably too flimsy. A length of plumbing pipe will work though.
Sponenberg's plans are floating around out on the web. Might even be a thread here on this site, regarding ball mill construction.
Copper Thermite? Stand back! Way back!
Ah, just returned from the web. It is a new and generous world out there.
Found a very helpful Youtube link. Took about 60 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ball+mill+homem...
[Edited on 14-10-2016 by zed]
[Edited on 14-10-2016 by zed] |
I guess it did come off as a bit lazy, I did not mean for that my mistake. My ball mill did quite a bit over a night but it isn't near the consistency
I want.... I wanted a lot more fine, so yes I'll have to make a better ball mill. I just wanted to make the thermite by this weekend, and decided to
push the project forward. I see the error of my ways. I do have one more question, for the copper thermite how far back are you recommending for a
100g mix? Is it far enough back where I should light it with a long range fuse?
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aga
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By the Power of google-Fu :-
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3957&a...
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=61...
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=61...
OR ....
... buy a rock tumbler.
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Fidelmios
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Thank you aga. I think I'll be heading to a pick and pull junkyard in the hopes of finding a washer/dryer to grab an electric motor. Like I mentioned
in the first post, the proper time/money ratio is what I seek. I need to pay the least amount of money, for the highest efficiency, with the a
reasonable amount of time required.
.... actually I have an old vacuum cleaner that lose suction, and has long been replaced. Is it possible to salvage a motor from it? I took a few
engineering classes, but I am clueless on application.
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Bert
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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1: Believe the people who told you that the ball mill needs to be properly built, and marbles likely are unsuitable for milling Aluminum. Milling Al
is a long, slow job, calling for dense media (steel bearings highly suggested). Make your mill jar larger in DIAMETER, rather than longer, if you want
quickest possible work.
2: Try shredding your Al can as a stack of several flattened cans, using an angle grinder and a heavy wire cup brush if you must use cans- But you are
going to get there faster starting from finely cut up Aluminum foil.
3: You do not plan to mill a completed mixture?  Your mill will probably let
you know when the Al is ground fine enough, the exploding with large clouds of brownish smoke is a good indicator... Copper thermite made with flour
fine Copper oxide and pyrotechnic grade Aluminum often goes off from the strike of a .22LR bullet. A mill/media capable of grinding Al is likely
capable of setting this mixture off too.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Amos
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Cooking basic copper carbonate in an oven produces copper(II) oxide, not copper(I). And I have very serious doubts as to the purity if it's
golden-brown in color. You likely had a starting carbonate of poor quality or you need to heat it further and longer until it is nearly black. For
this purpose I like stirring it around in a metal pan on a burner set to high.
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Fidelmios
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert | 1: Believe the people who told you that the ball mill needs to be properly built, and marbles likely are unsuitable for milling Aluminum. Milling Al
is a long, slow job, calling for dense media (steel bearings highly suggested). Make your mill jar larger in DIAMETER, rather than longer, if you want
quickest possible work.
2: Try shredding your Al can as a stack of several flattened cans, using an angle grinder and a heavy wire cup brush if you must use cans- But you are
going to get there faster starting from finely cut up Aluminum foil.
3: You do not plan to mill a completed mixture? Your mill will probably let
you know when the Al is ground fine enough, the exploding with large clouds of brownish smoke is a good indicator... Copper thermite made with flour
fine Copper oxide and pyrotechnic grade Aluminum often goes off from the strike of a .22LR bullet. A mill/media capable of grinding Al is likely
capable of setting this mixture off too.
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Marbles are a no go, but could I use old recycled slugs from a shooting range? I might just shell out for actual grinding media
Nope, plan on milling them separately and maybe using a timer to remind me in a couple days to check it.
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Fidelmios
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| Quote: Originally posted by Amos | Cooking basic copper carbonate in an oven produces copper(II) oxide, not copper(I). And I have very serious doubts as to the purity if it's
golden-brown in color. You likely had a starting carbonate of poor quality or you need to heat it further and longer until it is nearly black. For
this purpose I like stirring it around in a metal pan on a burner set to high.
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I was making a cooking joke, cook until golden brown. Sometimes I forget I'm not funny, it's all water under the fridge.
Yeah I did make cupric oxide. Not copper I oxide like I originally wrote. Just incase others read this thread the color change was from the teal of
basic copper carbonate, to grey, and eventually black. I tried my burners and the stove never reached the temperature I needed.
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Fidelmios
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So I've decided to scrap a motor from a Dyson vacuum if I can. I bet I'll have to gear it down, but you'll most likely see a post next week about
salvaging the motor, and then powering it.
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