RogueRose
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Project proposal - Listing compound & routes/method of Production (and obtaining??) - Spreadsheet format
So everytime I read about compounds I see how they are made and how they are used. In production or use there is often by-products which can be
utilized as well. Having a list that allows one to see how a compound can be made by different methods and the different inputs could be extremely
useful.
So, here is how it will work and help. Let's say I want to make a couple pounds of Sodium Acetate. I can open the list and find sodium acetate and
see the different listed methods of production and settle on the Vinegar and NaHCO3 method. The list shows what is needed, reaction process and
conditions, output yields and byproducts. I see that H20 and CO2 are produced. I also know that I want to use the CO2 if possible, so I can sort the
list to show what compounds can be made with CO2 and pick the appropriate one that I want to make which is potassium carbonate - so I find K2CO3 and
see what is needed to produce it.
I know the list could be made much better if some actual chemists help collaborate on this to refine how the list would work.
I was thinking that this could be continually added to and submissions could be made on an individual basis. Basically when someone finds a process
that works they create a one line entry (or more if needed) and posts the file. I can then add them to the list and keep it updated. I'm sure there
can be other ways to do this and I'm open to suggestions.
*edit* I added "obtaining" to the list as this would be great as well. Basically a list can be made of where the compound is used (metal plating,
pottery, agriculture, etc) and possibly product names. Just a thought.
Attachment: Chemical_Compound_List.pdf (16kB) This file has been downloaded 286 times
Attachment: Chemical_Compound_List.xls (7kB) This file has been downloaded 272 times
Attachment: Chemical_Compound_List.ods (13kB) This file has been downloaded 223 times
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Melgar
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Salts might be a little too basic, no pun intended. I mean, we all know how to mix acids and bases. I'd probably include only salts that are
difficult or inconvenient to prepare from acids and bases, or that you can't just make from acids and reactive metals. (Any guesses how one would
prepare zinc (II) nitrate?)
It would be more interesting, I think, to include less obvious synthesis methods (ie, you can make zinc cyanide by combining two molar units of of
potassium cyanide with one molar unit of zinc sulfate; the zinc cyanide isn't water soluble and precipitates out.) Or things like dry ammonia gas,
which you can make by heating acids like phosphoric and sulfuric acid, as long as they're bound to at least two ammonium molecules; the other one is
harder to drive off. You can also make dry ammonia gas by heating urea (it will give off water at first, but when it gets hot enough to give off
ammonia gas, it's pretty dry) which will also give you cyanuric acid as the stuff left behind. If you instead mix potassium carbonate (I think
hydroxide works too) and urea, you still get ammonia (and CO2), but now you're left with potassium cyanate at the end.
You should also mention things that can go wrong, so that people don't make common mistakes. For example, if a reaction starts generating chlorine
gas and this is a bad thing, what should you have on hand to stop it? Answer: sodium thiocyanate. I once accidentally made a sodium hypochlorite
solution acidic without realizing it, and chlorine started being generated. My first (very incorrect) thought was, oh I'll just add some acetone,
since then the chlorine will get tied up in the haloform reaction and will precipitate out as chloroform. Nope, under acidic conditions, acetone only
gets chlorinated once or twice, and you get a very potent tear gas, which I learned the hard way. At least it doesn't stick around and get absorbed
into anything plastic, like benzyl chloride (the result of mixing hydrochloric acid and benzyl alcohol) does. And at least that chlorine wasn't being
generated from acid and hydrogen peroxide. Putting acetone in that mixture could have lost me a hand or more.
The reactions to avoid are always important for people to know, because even if people can misuse them, you're far more likely to save someone than
you are to hurt anyone. Most dangerous chemicals have their syntheses posted on Wikipedia anyway. Plus, it's kind of fun to read about horribly
dangerous chemicals that are shockingly easy to make.
If you haven't read any entries in Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry, you probably should, just to get a good idea of how well-written
chemical production literature generally looks. I'll attach the article on oxidation, because it covers so many bases, whereas the other articles
tend to be more specific. That's a good style, but if you wanted to do this type of project, definitely more focus on home/amateur chemists as
opposed to industry.
Attachment: ullmann-oxidation.pdf (2.7MB) This file has been downloaded 2005 times
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RogueRose
International Hazard
Posts: 1590
Registered: 16-6-2014
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Quote: Originally posted by Melgar | Salts might be a little too basic, no pun intended. I mean, we all know how to mix acids and bases. I'd probably include only salts that are
difficult or inconvenient to prepare from acids and bases, or that you can't just make from acids and reactive metals. (Any guesses how one would
prepare zinc (II) nitrate?)
It would be more interesting, I think, to include less obvious synthesis methods (ie, you can make zinc cyanide by combining two molar units of of
potassium cyanide with one molar unit of zinc sulfate; the zinc cyanide isn't water soluble and precipitates out.) Or things like dry ammonia gas,
which you can make by heating acids like phosphoric and sulfuric acid, as long as they're bound to at least two ammonium molecules; the other one is
harder to drive off. You can also make dry ammonia gas by heating urea (it will give off water at first, but when it gets hot enough to give off
ammonia gas, it's pretty dry) which will also give you cyanuric acid as the stuff left behind. If you instead mix potassium carbonate (I think
hydroxide works too) and urea, you still get ammonia (and CO2), but now you're left with potassium cyanate at the end.
You should also mention things that can go wrong, so that people don't make common mistakes. For example, if a reaction starts generating chlorine
gas and this is a bad thing, what should you have on hand to stop it? Answer: sodium thiocyanate. I once accidentally made a sodium hypochlorite
solution acidic without realizing it, and chlorine started being generated. My first (very incorrect) thought was, oh I'll just add some acetone,
since then the chlorine will get tied up in the haloform reaction and will precipitate out as chloroform. Nope, under acidic conditions, acetone only
gets chlorinated once or twice, and you get a very potent tear gas, which I learned the hard way. At least it doesn't stick around and get absorbed
into anything plastic, like benzyl chloride (the result of mixing hydrochloric acid and benzyl alcohol) does. And at least that chlorine wasn't being
generated from acid and hydrogen peroxide. Putting acetone in that mixture could have lost me a hand or more.
The reactions to avoid are always important for people to know, because even if people can misuse them, you're far more likely to save someone than
you are to hurt anyone. Most dangerous chemicals have their syntheses posted on Wikipedia anyway. Plus, it's kind of fun to read about horribly
dangerous chemicals that are shockingly easy to make.
If you haven't read any entries in Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry, you probably should, just to get a good idea of how well-written
chemical production literature generally looks. I'll attach the article on oxidation, because it covers so many bases, whereas the other articles
tend to be more specific. That's a good style, but if you wanted to do this type of project, definitely more focus on home/amateur chemists as
opposed to industry. |
Thanks for the suggestions, those are exactly what I am looking for. I think adding the "potential dangers" and "DON'T DO THIS" type sections is a
great idea as well.
This project is definitely geared more towards the hobbiest than industry and is not meant to be a guide or how-to - step by step, but more of a
reference to check and see how difficult the reaction really is - the wiki's often state a reaction but don't say that expensive vessels or glassware
are needed or other very important missing info that later leads to disappointment when found not to be feasible.
I really like your examples about making dry ammonia. Those are the process which I was really thinking of when I thought of the list as I was
reading over urea and found that is where ureathanes start (sounds obvious now..). The examples I listed were solely as filler to show a basic
structure of my idea.
As far as not doing basic salts, I agree to some extent but I'm sure they could be added in either another section (to keep "clutter down) or sheet as
it could be a great reference for people who don't understand chemistry very well - maybe the salts will be a "time killer" project I'll work on.
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