BioChemMajor
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hydrazine?
ok, so i know it's not cool to just mix up chemicals, but i read a wiki article on hydrazine, and i had the chemicals here in the house (not really,
all watered down household stuff) the aticle had 2 methods. 1. was a combination of ammonia (i have blue window cleaner that contains ammonia) and
sodium hypochlorite (i have generic lemon scented bleach). 2. involved H2O2 and acetone (i have 3% H2O2 solution, and a PVC cleaner containing methyl
ethyl ketone and acetone) I took these four chemicals outside, first mixed bleach and window cleaner.. a few little bubbles, and lquid turned clear (i
guess the blch destroyed the blue color) after minutes of nothing, i added 3% H2O2, which made lots of thick white foam (O2 bubbles... i lit a peice
of paper, touched it to bubbles, and the paper would flare, but the bubbles didn't burn) I then added the PVC cleaner and this got rid of all the
foam, and i spotted tiny bubbles in my mixture. after a few minutes the solution separated into 2 layers. I dipped a cotton swap in the top layer and
lit it on fire. The liquid on the swab burned vigorously with a deep orange flame. I have no idea what i made, but i would like to try to understand
what actually went on. Intersted only because of the separation of layers as none of the beginning chemicals separate from any of the others, unless
all 4 are mixed. I also read that hydrazine was water soluble. so i know i didn't make what i set out to (hydrazine) but i did succeed in making a
highly flammable liquid. I just wish i knew what the hell it was. (i think i need chem lab more than once a week, just to keep me occupied)
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BioChemMajor
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i just checked the same mixture after sitting overnight. some precipitation floating on surface, looks like metal filings (tiny grey particles, they
float on surface of bottom layer, covered by top layer)
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Swany
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If hydrazine was created -though I doubt it was- you would have smelled it. The stuff burning was just the acetone/MEK.
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froot
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Is it not possible that MEKP may be formed in alkaline conditions?
If the top layer hadn't evapourated by the next morning then I doubt it is acetone/MEK.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
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BioChemMajor
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some change took place, the PVC cleaner (methyl ethyl ketone & acetone) dissolves in water, and never separates into layers, i wonder why this did
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12AX7
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Add salt.
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not_important
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If I'm reading what you did correctly, in part you moxed chlorine bleach and hydrogen peroxide. This results in the generation of singlet oxygen, a
rather active form useful for certain oxidations. Lots of foaming, gets hot if concentrated enough.
The salts, mostly ordinary salt, from the bleach might salt-out the organics in the PVC cleaner, giving two layers. Most PVC cleaners have 3 or more
solvents in them, yours is just MEK and acetone and dye?
There's some much other junk in there, dyes and scents and what not, that minor amounts of who knows what might be formed. There was another recent
thread on the condensation reaction between acetone and ammonia, which gave flecks in a red liquid.
Measurement of how much of how concentrated of what is important.
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BioChemMajor
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the PVC cleaner is a clear liquid. On the label, it says "contains MEK & acetone" but unfortunately doesn't list any othr active or inactive
ingredients. Maybe i can find a website for the manufacturer and find out what all is in it. (i have seen and used the stuff that's colored, but this
isn't) What shoul happen if I add salt? What is singlet oxygen and what can i do with it? (i'm guessing that it is single oxygen atoms and not O2
molecules)
oh, and ho would i go about making the chems more concentrated? is it possible?
(i need chemistry lab 7 days a week, to keep my neighborhood safe)
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not_important
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Well, the label may be accurate as the other common solvents should show up on the label.
Adding a salt, commonly NaCl, to an aqueous solution tends to force organics out of the water, forming two layers - salting out. Also used in soap
making.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singlet_oxygen
With ammonia connecting two bottles with tubing, sealed up otherwise, and cooling one in ice while slowly warming the other will drive much of the
ammonia into the cold bottle. You can repeat several times to get 25 to 35 percent ammonia. It's best to use plain ammonia in the cold bottle, or
start with plain water. Some places you will find "janitor strength" ammonia in hardware stores, this runs 10 to 15 percent. Or make your own ammonia
from ammonium sulfate fertilizer and lye or slaked (type S) lime.
With H2O2 you can boil off some of the water, pulling a vacuum with an aspirator while warming to 50 C does a decent job. Chlorine bleach can be
concentrated a bit in a similar fashion, but starts to decompose sooner than H2O2.
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