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Author: Subject: Sodium ferrocyanide
bluamine
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[*] posted on 20-5-2016 at 14:33
Sodium ferrocyanide


Hi everyone!!
I want to produce sodium ferrocyanide then convert it to sodium cyanide (i have chosen this process because i read about making cyanide using cyanamide but i think this way is difficult since calcium cyanamide melting point is too high..)
I want to know at which temperature can i do so.. & what organic materials are better to use as a carbon/nitrogen source (i suggest urea but i guess it may decompose before the ferrocyanide starts to be produced)
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Orenousername
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[*] posted on 21-5-2016 at 01:43


NurdRage has a video on this on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7i11XC9wk

But seriously, this is some crazy ass lethal shit.




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Jstuyfzand
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[*] posted on 21-5-2016 at 02:14


The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O
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Orenousername
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[*] posted on 21-5-2016 at 02:22


Quote: Originally posted by Jstuyfzand  
The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O


I don't know about you but I would rather not work with HCN lol.




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bluamine
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[*] posted on 21-5-2016 at 07:32


Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  
NurdRage has a video on this on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7i11XC9wk

But seriously, this is some crazy ass lethal shit.

I have already watched it, & i don't have acces to cyanuric acid..
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bluamine
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[*] posted on 21-5-2016 at 07:34


Quote: Originally posted by Jstuyfzand  
The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O

It sounds you talk as if hydrogen cyanide was available in harstores or so :(
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Jstuyfzand
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[*] posted on 21-5-2016 at 07:42


I mean that you said you want to produce your own Ferrocyanide, to make this, you need HCN, so I assume you have acces to it?
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Orenousername
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[*] posted on 21-5-2016 at 17:17


Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  
NurdRage has a video on this on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7i11XC9wk

But seriously, this is some crazy ass lethal shit.

I have already watched it, & i don't have acces to cyanuric acid..


If you have access to TCCA you can make cyanuric acid + Cl2 by reacting TCCA with HCl. This is usually used to generate chlorine but you can use it to obtain cyanuric acid too.




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bluamine
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[*] posted on 22-5-2016 at 03:10


Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  

If you have access to TCCA you can make cyanuric acid + Cl2 by reacting TCCA with HCl. This is usually used to generate chlorine but you can use it to obtain cyanuric acid too.

Well i think it is hard for me to obtain TTCA since it is used for swimming pools
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bluamine
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[*] posted on 22-5-2016 at 14:34


I just found something on Google books about making sodium cyanide from sodium cyanamide.. But we can't obtain this last from calcium cyanamide by metathesis!! since calcium cyanamide reacts with water :(

[Edited on 22-5-2016 by bluamine]

[Edited on 22-5-2016 by bluamine]
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bluamine
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[*] posted on 22-5-2016 at 14:38


I think i need to produce sodium cyanate then reducing it to sodium cyanide .. What do you think brothers in science? :)


[Edited on 22-5-2016 by bluamine]
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bluamine
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[*] posted on 22-5-2016 at 14:59


By the way i found this useful topic
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=65444#...
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Orenousername
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 01:17


Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  

If you have access to TCCA you can make cyanuric acid + Cl2 by reacting TCCA with HCl. This is usually used to generate chlorine but you can use it to obtain cyanuric acid too.

Well i think it is hard for me to obtain TTCA since it is used for swimming pools


Why would it be difficult for you to obtain TCCA? NurdRage's route is the one I would choose because it is fairy simple and he reports good yields. ChemPlayer's is a bit iffy because of possible contaminants, but NurdRage's has contaminants as well..

Where are you located? If you don't mind




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ELRIC
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 03:01


This has to be a typo. I can't imagine not being able to find TCCA
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bluamine
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 12:33


Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  
Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  

If you have access to TCCA you can make cyanuric acid + Cl2 by reacting TCCA with HCl. This is usually used to generate chlorine but you can use it to obtain cyanuric acid too.

Well i think it is hard for me to obtain TTCA since it is used for swimming pools


Why would it be difficult for you to obtain TCCA? NurdRage's route is the one I would choose because it is fairy simple and he reports good yields. ChemPlayer's is a bit iffy because of possible contaminants, but NurdRage's has contaminants as well..

Where are you located? If you don't mind

I meant i don't know any supplier for such products i think some of them exist though but anyway i have to search hard beofre finding one of them :( & even if i found one i may find only some other disinfectant products such as calcium hypochlorite..
I find the both processes are similar since they are based on reduction of cyanate..
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Orenousername
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 12:41


TCCA can be found at your local hardware store..



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Trevor9424
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 14:04


Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Jstuyfzand  
The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O

It sounds you talk as if hydrogen cyanide was available in harstores or so :(


Couldn't you obtain HCN by adding an acid, such as hydrochloric acid, to the sodium ferrocyanide and then heating it? You could use a filtering flask and tubing to bubble it into sodium hydroxide solution after stopping off the top of the flask. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 16:18


That sounds feasible but I would use sulfuric acid to get higher reaction temperatures, the cyanide groups are bound pretty strongly to the Fe



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bluamine
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 16:19


Quote: Originally posted by Trevor9424  
Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Jstuyfzand  
The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O

It sounds you talk as if hydrogen cyanide was available in harstores or so :(


Couldn't you obtain HCN by adding an acid, such as hydrochloric acid, to the sodium ferrocyanide and then heating it? You could use a filtering flask and tubing to bubble it into sodium hydroxide solution after stopping off the top of the flask. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

I didn't obtain ferrocyanide yet, & i think hydrochloric acid wouldn't work.. Anyway it sounds you plan to kill me ;) HCN is so dangerous & a normal mask gas filter (with only activated charcoal) can do nothing to prevent a toxication in that case..
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 16:21


Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  
TCCA can be found at your local hardware store..

I will see.. but do yo know any other uses for it (rather than its use in swimming pools)?
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[*] posted on 23-5-2016 at 18:25


Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Trevor9424  
Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Jstuyfzand  
The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O

It sounds you talk as if hydrogen cyanide was available in harstores or so :(


Couldn't you obtain HCN by adding an acid, such as hydrochloric acid, to the sodium ferrocyanide and then heating it? You could use a filtering flask and tubing to bubble it into sodium hydroxide solution after stopping off the top of the flask. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

I didn't obtain ferrocyanide yet, & i think hydrochloric acid wouldn't work.. Anyway it sounds you plan to kill me ;) HCN is so dangerous & a normal mask gas filter (with only activated charcoal) can do nothing to prevent a toxication in that case..


Totally didn't mean to make it sound that way ;) . But perhaps you could use a series of pipes/tubings and containers containing substances that neutralize HCN to ensure that any unreacted HCN will be used up before it can get out into the open air? So to set this up, have a container containing the sodium ferrocyanide have an addition funnel containing a choice acid attached to it. Then the reaction container can be attached to another with NaOH solution to be bubbled into. Then another container can be connected to as a HCN trap to neutralize any unreacted HCN and can contain more NaOH solution or another chemical that reacts with HCN to neutralize it or at least make it less dangerous. This may be too expensive, depending on what chemicals and labware you use so perhaps using HCN to make NaCN isn't the way to go...
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Orenousername
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[*] posted on 24-5-2016 at 00:48


Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  
TCCA can be found at your local hardware store..

I will see.. but do yo know any other uses for it (rather than its use in swimming pools)?


Making cyanide salts :P

[Edited on 5-24-2016 by Orenousername]




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bluamine
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[*] posted on 24-5-2016 at 05:09


Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  
Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  
TCCA can be found at your local hardware store..

I will see.. but do yo know any other uses for it (rather than its use in swimming pools)?


Making cyanide salts :P

[Edited on 5-24-2016 by Orenousername]

I have a better idea: i will tell them i want to kill someone instead :P
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[*] posted on 25-5-2016 at 09:04


Quote: Originally posted by bluamine  
Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername  
NurdRage has a video on this on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7i11XC9wk

But seriously, this is some crazy ass lethal shit.

I have already watched it, & i don't have acces to cyanuric acid..

no access?
wot?
where do you live?
While they dont sell clean tcca here(they often contain copper sulfate or sodium bicarbonate, which are easy to clean out) i could order it from ebay.

never tried nurdrages way of doing it and never will, and abso fucking lutely would never touch HCN....
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