bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sodium ferrocyanide
Hi everyone!!
I want to produce sodium ferrocyanide then convert it to sodium cyanide (i have chosen this process because i read about making cyanide using
cyanamide but i think this way is difficult since calcium cyanamide melting point is too high..)
I want to know at which temperature can i do so.. & what organic materials are better to use as a carbon/nitrogen source (i suggest urea but i
guess it may decompose before the ferrocyanide starts to be produced)
|
|
|
Orenousername
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 16-4-2016
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Regulated
|
|
NurdRage has a video on this on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7i11XC9wk
But seriously, this is some crazy ass lethal shit.
Lol nerds
|
|
|
Jstuyfzand
Hazard to Others
Posts: 166
Registered: 16-1-2016
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Learning, Sorta.
|
|
The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O
|
|
|
Orenousername
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 16-4-2016
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Regulated
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Jstuyfzand  | The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O |
I don't know about you but I would rather not work with HCN lol.
Lol nerds
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I have already watched it, & i don't have acces to cyanuric acid..
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Jstuyfzand | The wiki says its made from HCN, wouldnt it be better to produce the sodium cyanide directly from that?
HCN + NaOH --> NaCN + H2O |
It sounds you talk as if hydrogen cyanide was available in harstores or so 
|
|
|
Jstuyfzand
Hazard to Others
Posts: 166
Registered: 16-1-2016
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Learning, Sorta.
|
|
I mean that you said you want to produce your own Ferrocyanide, to make this, you need HCN, so I assume you have acces to it?
|
|
|
Orenousername
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 16-4-2016
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Regulated
|
|
If you have access to TCCA you can make cyanuric acid + Cl2 by reacting TCCA with HCl. This is usually used to generate chlorine but you can use it to
obtain cyanuric acid too.
Lol nerds
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername |
If you have access to TCCA you can make cyanuric acid + Cl2 by reacting TCCA with HCl. This is usually used to generate chlorine but you can use it to
obtain cyanuric acid too. |
Well i think it is hard for me to obtain TTCA since it is used for swimming pools
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I just found something on Google books about making sodium cyanide from sodium cyanamide.. But we can't obtain this last from calcium cyanamide by
metathesis!! since calcium cyanamide reacts with water
[Edited on 22-5-2016 by bluamine]
[Edited on 22-5-2016 by bluamine]
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I think i need to produce sodium cyanate then reducing it to sodium cyanide .. What do you think brothers in science? 
[Edited on 22-5-2016 by bluamine]
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
By the way i found this useful topic
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=65444#...
|
|
|
Orenousername
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 16-4-2016
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Regulated
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by bluamine | | Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername |
If you have access to TCCA you can make cyanuric acid + Cl2 by reacting TCCA with HCl. This is usually used to generate chlorine but you can use it to
obtain cyanuric acid too. |
Well i think it is hard for me to obtain TTCA since it is used for swimming pools |
Why would it be difficult for you to obtain TCCA? NurdRage's route is the one I would choose because it is fairy simple and he reports good yields.
ChemPlayer's is a bit iffy because of possible contaminants, but NurdRage's has contaminants as well..
Where are you located? If you don't mind
Lol nerds
|
|
|
ELRIC
Hazard to Others
Posts: 244
Registered: 23-2-2015
Location: Kentucky
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This has to be a typo. I can't imagine not being able to find TCCA
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername | | Quote: Originally posted by bluamine | | Quote: Originally posted by Orenousername |
If you have access to TCCA you can make cyanuric acid + Cl2 by reacting TCCA with HCl. This is usually used to generate chlorine but you can use it to
obtain cyanuric acid too. |
Well i think it is hard for me to obtain TTCA since it is used for swimming pools |
Why would it be difficult for you to obtain TCCA? NurdRage's route is the one I would choose because it is fairy simple and he reports good yields.
ChemPlayer's is a bit iffy because of possible contaminants, but NurdRage's has contaminants as well..
Where are you located? If you don't mind |
I meant i don't know any supplier for such products i think some of them exist though but anyway i have to search hard beofre finding one of them & even if i found one i may find only some other disinfectant products such as
calcium hypochlorite..
I find the both processes are similar since they are based on reduction of cyanate..
|
|
|
Orenousername
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 16-4-2016
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Regulated
|
|
TCCA can be found at your local hardware store..
Lol nerds
|
|
|
Trevor9424
Harmless
Posts: 26
Registered: 13-5-2016
Location: United States
Member Is Offline
Mood: Corroded
|
|
Couldn't you obtain HCN by adding an acid, such as hydrochloric acid, to the sodium ferrocyanide and then heating it? You could use a filtering flask
and tubing to bubble it into sodium hydroxide solution after stopping off the top of the flask. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
|
|
|
Orenousername
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 16-4-2016
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Regulated
|
|
That sounds feasible but I would use sulfuric acid to get higher reaction temperatures, the cyanide groups are bound pretty strongly to the Fe
Lol nerds
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Trevor9424 |
Couldn't you obtain HCN by adding an acid, such as hydrochloric acid, to the sodium ferrocyanide and then heating it? You could use a filtering flask
and tubing to bubble it into sodium hydroxide solution after stopping off the top of the flask. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
|
I didn't obtain ferrocyanide yet, & i think hydrochloric acid wouldn't work.. Anyway it sounds you plan to kill me  HCN is so dangerous & a normal mask gas filter (with only activated charcoal) can
do nothing to prevent a toxication in that case..
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I will see.. but do yo know any other uses for it (rather than its use in swimming pools)?
|
|
|
Trevor9424
Harmless
Posts: 26
Registered: 13-5-2016
Location: United States
Member Is Offline
Mood: Corroded
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by bluamine | | Quote: Originally posted by Trevor9424 |
Couldn't you obtain HCN by adding an acid, such as hydrochloric acid, to the sodium ferrocyanide and then heating it? You could use a filtering flask
and tubing to bubble it into sodium hydroxide solution after stopping off the top of the flask. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
|
I didn't obtain ferrocyanide yet, & i think hydrochloric acid wouldn't work.. Anyway it sounds you plan to kill me HCN is so dangerous & a normal mask gas filter (with only activated charcoal) can
do nothing to prevent a toxication in that case.. |
Totally didn't mean to make it sound that way . But perhaps you could use a
series of pipes/tubings and containers containing substances that neutralize HCN to ensure that any unreacted HCN will be used up before it can get
out into the open air? So to set this up, have a container containing the sodium ferrocyanide have an addition funnel containing a choice acid
attached to it. Then the reaction container can be attached to another with NaOH solution to be bubbled into. Then another container can be connected
to as a HCN trap to neutralize any unreacted HCN and can contain more NaOH solution or another chemical that reacts with HCN to neutralize it or at
least make it less dangerous. This may be too expensive, depending on what chemicals and labware you use so perhaps using HCN to make NaCN isn't the
way to go...
|
|
|
Orenousername
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 16-4-2016
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Regulated
|
|
Making cyanide salts 
[Edited on 5-24-2016 by Orenousername]
Lol nerds
|
|
|
bluamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 17-8-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I have a better idea: i will tell them i want to kill someone instead
|
|
|
Fegie
Harmless
Posts: 17
Registered: 6-4-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
no access?
wot?
where do you live?
While they dont sell clean tcca here(they often contain copper sulfate or sodium bicarbonate, which are easy to clean out) i could order it from ebay.
never tried nurdrages way of doing it and never will, and abso fucking lutely would never touch HCN....
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
