D4RR3N
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phosphorous from bone meal
Carbon has a slightly higher electronegativity then phosphorous so was just wondering what would happen if you mixed powdered bone meal (calcium
phosphate) with powdered charcoal, put the mixture in a clay ball and roasted it (oxygen free environment). Trying to figure out if they could have
extracted phosphorous from bone dust in ancient times using simple chemistry.
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MeshPL
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The answer is they could but didn't. It was not until 17th century when phosphorus was produced. I think that you will likely succeed but it seems
that adding some silica or turning your phosphates into metaphoshates may help. Also, what do you mean by clay ball? The thing is, phosphorus will
likely be produced in gaseous form, so your ball may explode if it is enclosed or your phosphorus burn away if open. I think that the solution is
adding a steel pipe or something leading away under a surface of water in some container.
Also, good heating may be crucial. Good luck and don't mess up! I think user BromicAcid published a story about phosphorous somewhere outside the
forum. I think here: http://www.bromicacid.com/mistakes.htm#6 Really terrifying.
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byko3y
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Ye, phosphine is a tricky shit to deal with. Last time I tried mixing AlP with chlorine tablets, I've got a small explosion.
Phosphine is not that toxic as bromicacid describes, but insidious. A regular phosphine does have a charateristic odor, the odorless phosphine comes
when diphosphine is absorbed by some stuff.
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BromicAcid
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Bone meal can have a lot of organic garbage in it which makes it a pain to use for this process. Industrially the bone meal was heated to produce
bone ash and then this was reacted as you describe in ceramic retorts. Also sometimes things went a step further using the bone ash to make
phosphoric acid and then using that as a feed stock in the process. My memory fails me though if they used silicon dioxide in the mix to help with
the yields or if that advent came at a later time.
@byko3y: It may seem like hyperbole but phosphine is wicked toxic. If have smelled it and apparently suffered no ill effects but there are those
that are not so lucky.
From the CDC entry:
| Quote: | Phosphine interferes with enzymes and protein synthesis, primarily in the mitochondria of heart and lung cells. Metabolic changes in heart muscle
cause cation disturbances that alter transmembrane potentials. Ultimately, cardiac arrest, peripheral vascular collapse and pulmonary edema can occur.
Pulmonary edema and pneumonitis are believed to result from direct cytotoxicity to the pulmonary cells. In fatal cases, centrilobular necrosis of the
liver has also been reported.
Most deaths occur within the first 12 to 24 hours after exposure and are cardiovascular in origin. If the patient survives the initial 24 hours, the
ECG typically returns to normal, indicating that heart damage is reversible. Deaths after 24 hours are usually due to liver failure.
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Unfortunately most home chemists scoff at the toxicity of compounds that have failed to kill them in the past.
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Bert
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Thread Moved
18-12-2015 at 04:47 |
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