DalisAndy
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Trimethyl borate
Does anyone know if Trimethyl borate is soluble in ethanol? I can't find any info on its solubility except in water. Reason why I'm asking is cause I
was going to use denatured alcohol for my methanol source.
Elements Collected: 19/81 (Excluding all radioactive, using placecard for those)
Any tips or good sources are welcome.
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Detonationology
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If I remember correctly, only lower alcohols (methanol and ethanol) are capable of reacting with boric acid to form either trimethyl or triethyl
borate respectively.
“There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.” ― William James
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Detonationology
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I just mixed some boric acid and isopropyl alcohol together with a drop of H2SO4. The product burned with a typical bluish/orange flame, not the
characteristic green flame. Heet gas line antifreeze (methanol) has the best results, but I believe that the less used denatured ethanol would
provide similar results to those of trimethyl borate.
“There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.” ― William James
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DalisAndy
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But would trimethyl borate dissolve in ethonal?
Elements Collected: 19/81 (Excluding all radioactive, using placecard for those)
Any tips or good sources are welcome.
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Bert
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The excess carbon in ethanol disturbs the green flame- Use methanol for the best results with any alcohol flame colorant except Sodium.
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Detonationology
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Should ethanol be used if a sodium compound is being used? What about the case of using sodium tetraborate as the source of boron?
“There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.” ― William James
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Bert
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https://books.google.com/books?id=TjhHAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA323&...
[Edited on 13-10-2015 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Bert
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Thread Moved
13-10-2015 at 13:16 |
UC235
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Yes, trimethyl borate is probably miscible with ethanol. Transesterification will almost surely occur to mixed methy, ethyl borates but this shouldn't
change the flame color since it is atomic boron produced in the flame that emits green.
Methanol burns with a clean blue flame while alcohols like ethanol and isopropanol require a lot more oxygen to burn completely. The resulting flames
are usually partly or completely yellow due to emission from carbon radicals and soot particles.
Borax is useless as a source of boron for flame coloring since the yellow sodium emission band is extremely intense and will cover most other flame
test colors completely.
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Detonationology
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Quote: Originally posted by UC235  | | Borax is useless as a source of boron for flame coloring since the yellow sodium emission band is extremely intense and will cover most other flame
test colors completely. |
In my earlier years of chemistry, I had no idea what would happen if I mixed some of my methanol camp stove fuel with borax. I was quite surprised to
see a beautiful GREEN flame. Try it. I have some pictures of it, if I could figure out how to post them on here.
[Edited on 10-13-2015 by Detonationology]
“There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.” ― William James
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Detonationology
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Here is crude trimethyl borate (I'm assuming) made from methanol and sodium tetraborate decahydrate. The sodium does not exhibit much of a
yellow/orange tone at all.
 
“There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.” ― William James
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