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deltaH
Dangerous source of unreferenced speculation
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Quote: Originally posted by Bert  |
... Bad things happened to a few GI's using burning chunks of C4 for ration heating under those conditions.
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That was tested on mythbusters and 'busted'.
AJKOER, okay, now I get the idea of what you're trying to do, wasn't sure if your fuel was liquid or solid.
For liquids, if it's a volatile alcohol, what you ideally need is another liquid fuel that has higher heat of combustion AND either (i) boils very
close to the boiling point of your alcohol or whatever mix is there or (ii) forms an azeotrope with your alcohol. This is important or you mixture
will burn off more of the volatile component at first and so change flame characteristics as it goes, which is bad for gel fuels that you're lighting
as a 'batch' and burning for some time. This is not a problem for direct injection combustion where everything is volatilised anyhow.
I would simply blend with hydrocarbons, remember also that nitrogen in the fuel can create fuel NOx, so not appropriate for indoors. I'd stick to
hydrocarbons and oxygenates to be safe.
As for azeotropes, a hydrocarbon and alcohol is more likely to result in an azeotrope than an ether and alcohol, for example, but an ether and alcohol
where the boiling point of the ether used is close to the alcohol is also fine. Again, you would also need to cross reference with things that can be
commercially bought cheaply of course, makes everything extra interesting 
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blogfast25
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They actually busted something that couldn't be busted with a piece of paper, a pencil and 5 minutes of time?
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Bert
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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"Mythbusters" is entertainment, not statistically valid research. To me, they are mostly annoying- Please just give their production budget to some
actual engineers, you could then have useful research.
I have watched them massively fail to get the point, "prove" the false and "bust" the true off of a far too limited number of trials, often conducted
within insanely wrong, ignorant parameters... Hopeless.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert | "Mythbusters" is entertainment, not statistically valid research. To me, they are mostly annoying- Please just give their production budget to some
actual engineers, you could then have useful research.
I have watched them massively fail to get the point, "prove" the false and "bust" the true off of a far too limited number of trials, often conducted
within insanely wrong, ignorant parameters... Hopeless.
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Can't disagree with a syllable there. Rather comically the Pretzeldent felt he had to endorse MB. MB thought that was kewl. Very kewl for their bottom
line, that is.
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deltaH
Dangerous source of unreferenced speculation
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Bert, are there any documented cases of bad things happening to GI's you can point to concerning this myth?
[Edited on 24-2-2015 by deltaH]
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Fulmen
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I agree, although they usually do good (and fun) experiments they sometimes lack a couple of engineers. Their biggest problem is that the show can't
deal with the statistically improbable, even though I expect they do a lot more work than what is shown. Results in the improbable range are also not
viewer friendly, they want a definitive answer. I wish they could be a little more selective in their choice of myths sometimes, but it's still more
fun than most other shows out there.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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blogfast25
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Disagree. Watching paint dry is more interesting in most cases. Not to mention that annoying self-congratulatory tone, 'aren't we cool?' (A. NO!) and
infantile presentation. It's a money spinner and that's its only purpose.
Some claim it's 'educational'? How? By proving you can't catapult illegal aliens across the border? That cars can't be made to fly by strapping fire
crackers to them?
[Edited on 24-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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Zombie
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 I would pay to see either one of those attempted!
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Endo
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You could look at some of the gelling agents used in Napalm. I believe that some of these could be used to give a hotter burning flame, probably at
the cost of adding some smell... Aluminum salts of Napthalene come to mind.
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jock88
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I believe placing stuff like carbon black can increase burning rate due to its ability to absorb radiation as the fuel burns and thereby increases the
temperature of the burning front.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by jock88 |
I believe placing stuff like carbon black can increase burning rate due to its ability to absorb radiation as the fuel burns and thereby increases the
temperature of the burning front. |
I don't think you've thought this through very well. Adding carbon means adding fuel. And carbon burns very hot (compare charcoal fired furnaces to
gas fired ones, for instance).
But it's ability to 'absorb radiation' has nothing to do with anything. It has to return that radiation otherwise it would heat to beyond the
temperature of the fire, at which point the Second Law dictates it must start losing heat to that environment again.
Carbon adds kJ of combustion Enthalpy to the burning object but nothing more.
[Edited on 25-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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AJKOER
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Thanks for all of the suggestions.
I also have an idea of dissolving sulfur in Toluene (highly flammable, see comments by Woelen on a safe procedure to dissolve the sulfur at http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=5831.0 ). I am thinking of employing the mix in a burner in small amounts with an added air stream.
An issue appears that I have not as of yet secured a convenient and reasonably priced supply of Toluene.
Interesting also, there is a comment on the internet of using Toluene as an octane booster.
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Molecular Manipulations
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| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER | | Going commercial creates a whole new burden with respect to safety and legal liability issues, of course, but does provide the luxury of scale and
possible expanded access to things like CaC2,.. |
What are you going to do with this? Are you trying to make a commercial product? If so, I don't think people are going to want sulfur dioxide to be a
combustion product. Also, what advantage does sulfur dissolved in toluene have over pure toluene?
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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AJKOER
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| Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations | | Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER | | Going commercial creates a whole new burden with respect to safety and legal liability issues, of course, but does provide the luxury of scale and
possible expanded access to things like CaC2,.. |
What are you going to do with this? Are you trying to make a commercial product? If so, I don't think people are going to want sulfur dioxide to be a
combustion product. Also, what advantage does sulfur dissolved in toluene have over pure toluene? |
No, this is just an experiment (that I am not likely to forget) and certainly not intended to be a commercial product.
Reducing the sulfur content of a fuel will reduce its heat content (see, for example, http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=20092 ) and increasing the opposite effect.
[Edited on 26-2-2015 by AJKOER]
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