Sandmeyer
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Thallium (III) trifluoroacetate
Hi,
Does anyone have an idea on how to make this salt? It is too expensive. Can one simply treat thallium oxide (much cheaper) with trifluoro acetic acid?
I'm no fan of inorganic chemistry, so any help is appreciated!
Thanks!
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12AX7
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Tl2O3, yes. Mind that Tl appears to prefer the (I) state, similar to Sn and Pb, which very generally prefer (II) to (IV) state.
Tim
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unionised
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You do know that thallium compounds don't count as health food don't you?
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Sandmeyer
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Ok, thanks for your help, but I'm only interested in the preparation.
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The_Davster
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A story from a proff of mine:
"a grad student was working with Tl compounds for an extended period of time, no accidents ever occured with them, but one day strange grey
sores began to cover his body in parts. He went to see the doctor, and the doctor had no idea what was causing them, so they were scraped off and
sent for analysis. Turns out it was thallium metal."
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Darkblade48
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rogue chemist
...but one day strange grey sores began to cover his body in parts. He went to see the doctor, and the doctor had no idea what was causing them, so
they were scraped off and sent for analysis. Turns out it was thallium metal."
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That's pretty scary, considering the lethal dose is 14 mg/kg
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Magpie
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There is a recent story of murder done (or attempted) via Tl that I'm sure most of you have heard about. It involved a Mensus Society chemist in
Florida who was pissed at her neighbors for continually playing their radio too loudly in the driveway. It went something like this:
1. Buy 6-pack of coke.
2. Carefully remove bottle caps.
3. Add aliquot of thalium nitrate to each bottle.
4. Carefully recap.
5. Place six-pack on offending neighbor's patio.
6. Sit back and enjoy revenge. 
Oh, I must be sure to add that they were caught and convicted.
[Edited on 15-11-2005 by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Darkblade48
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
There is a recent story of murder done (or attempted) via Tl that I'm sure most of you have heard about. It involved a Mensus Society chemist in
Florida who was pissed at her neighbors for continually playing their radio too loudly in the driveway. |
I remember this story, but I don't think it was recent (I remember it from when I was a young child, at least 12+ years ago)
I don't think it involved a Mensus society chemist either, and I am uncertain about the particular compound used, but I do
remember that they poisoned them via Coke bottles.
Only the people that drank the Coke from the cans were spared, and the there were mixed results for those that mixed the posioned bottled Coke and the
unpoisoned canned Coke.
The guy was convicted in the end, if I remember correctly.
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BromicAcid
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Keeping off topic.
I've heard that Thallium poisoning is one of the most terrible ways to be poisoned, more intense then mercury poisoning "Suitible for mass
murderers and child molesters" as I recall. Terrible burning of the skin, all your hair falls out, teeth fall out, etc. However there is now a
therapy for poisoning by Thallium, I saw it recently on television with regards to the afformentioned poisoning incident in the previous posts (It was
quite some time ago but it is something that they still do specials about). Really, I would never want to mess with thallium because of it.
Incredibly dangerous stuff. (But I hear incredible densities can be acheived with concentrated aqueous solutions of its salts... hummmm....)
BTW, there is a book on the case, it is titled "Poison Mind: The True Story of the Mensa Murderer-And the Policewoman Who Risked Her Life to
Bring Him to Justice" and can be found used on amazon.com
[Edited on 11/15/2005 by BromicAcid]
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Sandmeyer
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I was looking at the pourbaix diagram for thallium, and it seems that pH needs to be ~ 0 for it to exist as III ion, so it might work with
trifluoroacetic acid (pka 0.3), but to have a practicl procedure would be great.
[Edited on 15-11-2005 by Sandmeyer]
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Fleaker
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Ah yes, Bromic, you would be talking about (as an example) thallium malonate solution. That is dense enough to have sand float upon it! Thallium is
relatively safe to handle so long as you use proper hygiene (wear gloves and all suitable equipment) but it is a very nasty way to go. From what
I've heard and read, methyl mercury poisoning is not pleasant either (it can't be chelated because the large chelate molecules cannot pass
the membrane at the base of the brainstem where the methyl mercury collects).
As an aside: an interesting movie to watch that deals primarily with thallium poisoning (based upon a true story!) is "The Young Poisoner's
Handbook" which I believe was set in 60s London where nigh on any chemical was easily purchased. Anyways, he killed his mother and his father too
with it, and then attempted to poison his coworkers years later. A very unique film.
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Eclectic
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Adding to Off Topic
A much safer flotation liquid for density separations is a solution of silicotungstic acid in water. You can easily get a density of 3.2 at 25C.
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