darkflame89
Hazard to Others
Posts: 255
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: With probability 1, "somewhere" in this
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
sodium percarbonate
Does anyone have a clue on how to synthesise sodium or potassium percarbonate. The only info i have about it is that it evolves O2 in water,
decomposing to the carbonate.
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
|
|
|
JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I remember reading somewhere that percarbonates have a blue color, and are made by electrolysis of alkali metal carbonates (which in solution are
alkaline due to hydrolysis) at low temperatures at a voltage sufficient to discharge OH- ions.
John W.
|
|
|
guy
National Hazard
Posts: 982
Registered: 14-4-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Catalytic!
|
|
Na2CO3.H2O2
Maybe it could be made by adding anhydrous soda ash to pure hydrogen peroxide.
|
|
|
darkflame89
Hazard to Others
Posts: 255
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: With probability 1, "somewhere" in this
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
really is that easy?
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
|
|
|
JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I rather doubt it, except in small amounts, because H2O2 is rather too easily decomposed. However, if H2O2 could be cleaved at the O-O bond to form
OH radicals, this would have the same effect as the OH radicals formed on discharge of OH- anions in the method for preparation involving electrolysis
of Na2CO3 solution.
At least one of the Os in the CO3-- anion has to be replaced with C-O-O, to give CO4-- (similar to Caro's acid and peroxysulfate), or a bridged
structure like [O2C-O-O-CO2]-- (similar to peroxydisulfate). If partial discharge of CO3-- anions is significant in the electrolysis of Na2CO3
solution, forming singly charged CO3- radicals, two of them could combine to form the latter (bridged) species.
John W.
|
|
|
halogen
Hazard to Others
Posts: 372
Registered: 18-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It comes in the impure form as oxiclean.
(sodium percarbonate)
But even then, it has a lot of carbonate too...
F. de Lalande and M. Prud'homme showed that a mixture of boric oxide and sodium chloride is decomposed in a stream of dry air or oxygen at a red heat
with the evolution of chlorine.
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
| Quote: |
At least one of the Os in the CO3-- anion has to be replaced with C-O-O, to give CO4-- (similar to Caro's acid and peroxysulfate), or a bridged
structure like [O2C-O-O-CO2]-- (similar to peroxydisulfate). If partial discharge of CO3-- anions is significant in the electrolysis of Na2CO3
solution, forming singly charged CO3- radicals, two of them could combine to form the latter (bridged) species.
John W. |
Huh??? Sodium percarbonate is just Na2CO3.1.5H2O2, with only standard ions. Acros gives the structure here.
[Edited on 20-8-2004 by neutrino]
|
|
|
JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That (with that formula) would not be a true percarbonate at all, but just a double salt, a mixture of sodium and hydrogen carbonate and peroxide,
obtained by crystallization from a mixture of carbonate and peroxide, which someone has chosen to call "percarbonate". I am sure that true
percarbonates exist, however.
John W.
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
Well, that's what's sold commercially as percarbonate.
|
|
|
Turel
Hazard to Others
Posts: 141
Registered: 29-11-2003
Location: The Hardware/Software Interface
Member Is Offline
Mood: Thixotropic
|
|
Oxyclean
If I recall correctly, the otc commercial cleaning agent sold as "Oxy-Clean" is a mixture of sodium carbonate and sodium percarbonate.
I know it doesn't help with the synthesis, but a good addition to the search engine nonetheless....
-T
|
|
|
guy
National Hazard
Posts: 982
Registered: 14-4-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Catalytic!
|
|
Percarbonates are not CO4 salts.
My Penguin Dictionary of Chemistry states that percarbonates are:
Carbonates with varying amounts of H2O2 of crystillation are stale as solids.
[Edited on 21-8-2004 by guy]
[Edited on 21-8-2004 by guy]
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
There has been confusion over the nomenclature for at least a hundred years. There are a few different salts that one could make with, say, K2CO3. For
some reason industry calls the one with H2O2 of crystallization percarbonate. From Kirk-Othmer:
"Peroxocarbonates contain the C-O-O- group and should be distinguished from the carbonate peroxohydrates. Although no crystal structures have
been determined, the nature of the peroxocarbonates has been deduced from vibrational spectra.
These compounds can be prepared by three general methods: reaction of carbon dioxide and a solution of the metal hydroxide in hydrogen peroxide,
anodic oxidation of normal carbonates at low temperatures, and oxidation of aqueous solutions of carbonates with elemental fluorine. Only the
peroxocarbonates of the alkali metals are known. Some are peroxomonocarbonates, containing the CO2-4 anion; others are peroxodicarbonates, containing
the C2O2-6 anion. Mixed alkali metal hydrogen salts are also known. Those salts that have been reasonably well-characterized include Li2(CO4)·H2O,
Na2(C2O6)·nH2O, K2(C2O6), Rb2(C2O6), Cs2(C2O6), NaHCO4·H2O, KHCO4, and RbHCO4.
Sodium Carbonate Peroxohydrate. Known commercially as sodium percarbonate, sodium carbonate peroxohydrate [15630-89-4] does not contain the C-O-O-C
group and is not a peroxocarbonate. The stoichiometry is 2Na2CO3·3H2O2. The material is made commercially by three processes: batch crystallization,
continuous crystallization, and fluid-bed reaction. The crystallization processes are similar to the processes for making sodium peroxoborate
hexahydrate. Solutions of hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate are mixed in proportions close to the stoichiometry of the end product. Stabilizers
are added and the product is separated by cooling and the use of salting-out agents such as sodium chloride. In the fluid-bed process, hydrogen
peroxide solution and sodium carbonate solution are injected into a fluid bed of the product fed by warm air. The bed serves as a combined reactor,
granulator, and drier. Stabilizers are usually introduced with the hydrogen peroxide...
Because the compound is alkaline (pH 10-11 in solution) and hydrogen peroxide is unstable in alkali, the hydrogen peroxide liberated from the
peroxohydrate tends to decompose as it escapes. The peroxohydrate is storage-stable if dry, but unstable if wet. The ready availability of hydrogen
peroxide from the peroxohydrate, often an advantage in synthetic applications, can lead to violent exothermic reactions if the peroxohydrate is mixed
with an excess of an oxidizable substance.
When dissolved in water, the solution is identical with that obtained by dissolving sodium carbonate in aqueous hydrogen peroxide. There is some
evidence for the presence of the traces of true peroxocarbonate anion, HCO-4, in these solutions. If the peroxohydrate is heated for about an hour at
100°C and then allowed to cool to room temperature, some decomposition occurs and the product effervesces when placed in water...
Sodium carbonate peroxohydrate has been used as an oxidizing agent in synthetic organic chemistry, at least on the laboratory scale. In nonaqueous
systems it serves as a source of concentrated hydrogen peroxide and thus can be used to make peroxycarboxylic acids from carboxylic anhydrides,
chlorides, or imidazolides. The peroxohydrate does not need high solubility to react. A suspension of sodium carbonate peroxohydrate in
tetrahydrofuran, or dichloromethane presaturated with water, can be used. These heterogeneous reactions can be accelerated by ultrasonic
radiation."
|
|
|
darkflame89
Hazard to Others
Posts: 255
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: With probability 1, "somewhere" in this
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Perhaps I am misunderstood, when i wrote potassium percarbonate, i mean K2C2O6. This compound decomposes to potassium carbonate, oxygen in water, and
is certainly not potssium carbonate solution with hydrogen peroxide in it.
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
|
|
|
JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That would be the bridged dimeric anion [O2-C-O-O-CO2]-- I postulated before, as capable of being formed from the singly charged radical anions CO3-
formed in the partial electrolytic discharge of CO3-- anions.
JohnW.
|
|
|
chloric1
International Hazard
Posts: 1140
Registered: 8-10-2003
Location: GroupVII of the periodic table
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stoichiometrically Balanced
|
|
Percarbonates
I buy my sodium percarbonate from www.chemistrystore.com in 2 lb jars. It is great for laundry and I use the powder as a scouring powder for heavy duty scrubbing. Mix this with
strong alkali like sodium metalsilicate or trisodium phosphate and this stuff will lift many kinds of dirt and grime. It is excellent for bleaching
wood!
Fellow molecular manipulator
|
|
|
Mendeleev
Hazard to Others
Posts: 237
Registered: 25-12-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: stoned
|
|
Is sodium percarbonate a stronger oxidant that sodium perborate?
Trogdor was a man. A dragon man. Or maybe just a dragon. . .
|
|
|
Joeychemist
Hazard to Others
Posts: 275
Registered: 16-9-2004
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sedated
|
|
Mendeleev
IICR sodium perborate (Na2B2H4O8-is this right?) is a stronger oxidant than sodium percarbonate (Na2CO3).
|
|
|
Mendeleev
Hazard to Others
Posts: 237
Registered: 25-12-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: stoned
|
|
I believe this is because Na2CO3 is sodium carbonate not percarbonate.
[Edited on 19-12-2004 by Mendeleev]
|
|
|
Joeychemist
Hazard to Others
Posts: 275
Registered: 16-9-2004
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sedated
|
|
Sorry
Mendeleev
Sorry, I was kind of buzzed last night, didn’t even bother to re-read my post.
Na2CO3-H2O2, Sodium Percarbonate has an active available oxygen content which is equivalent to abotu 27.5% H2O2, (I think).
[Edited on 20-12-2004 by Joeychemist]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
