infamous1
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Unlabeled Products
We all wish the store would label the contents of their products, but they rarely do. Has anyone had some success with calling the manufacturers and
asking about the chemical makeup?
e.g. I go to walmart and find a bottle pH minus, but it's not labeled. I want to know if it's H3PO4 or HNO3 and if it's pure.
1.1001111000110111011110011011100101111111010010100111110 000010101111100111001110011000000011000000101
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BromicAcid
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Usually calling the manufacturers is unnecessary (I don't think that would be a wise idea anyway as most products clearly state that "Using
this product in a manner inconsistent with it's labeling is a felony and punishable by a $10,000 fine or 10 years in prison" or something to
that extent), typing in a brand online or some other product specific data and the key acronym 'MSDS' can give you key information to the
chemical makeup of many OTC products. Is your pH minus question an actual example or just a made up one, if it truly is a question you want to answer
you might give more information such a brand name and such and someone here might help. Most pH minus in my area though is only sodium
hydrogensulfate though.
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unicorn
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If you can't find MSDS details online, you could call the manufacturers or suppliers and say something about how you are worried components might
cause health problems to the "guys on the building site" or "cleaning staff". Ask for a list of the contents and if they dont
comply mumble something about sueing if someone gets ill. That'll terrify them with todays compensation culture! 
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S.C. Wack
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Weird. The MSDS for that product is not available by Googling, nor from the NIH site. Arch says you have to register for the MSDS, or call
1800511MSDS. Which you would know if you tried. I was in flame mode till I actually did some (not much) looking.
That said- the bottle that is in front of me, 7lbs, "hth" "pH Minus", from that store, bought last week, does say what is in it.
In front in big letters: Sodium Bisulfate - 92%. On the back: Sodium bisulfate, sodium sulfate, water. I strongly suspect that you will not find
nitric acid being used anywhere to lower the pH of pools. I suppose there might be some other pH minus product at some other walcrap somewhere.
All of the pool chemicals at walcrap are nicely labelled, except for some that have complex ingredients.
Why don't you call the manufacturers and find out?
If you are actually interested in phosphoric acid, TSP is practically given away in the US, and the Ca (mono,di,tri)phosphate fertilizers suck. HTH!
(not the same as hth)
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infamous1
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unlabeled products
to Bromic Acid- thanks for the advice. The pH minus is not a made up scenario. I just wanted to know in general how most people do it.
to S.C. Wack- I was referring to the pH minus for fish tanks at walmart. It is about 15 ml and not labeled. I have not seen the pool water pH
minus, but it's useful to know that it's there. I have heard of some pH minus products being HNO3 and some H3PO4 (I am not sure if the
report was true).
1.1001111000110111011110011011100101111111010010100111110 000010101111100111001110011000000011000000101
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S.C. Wack
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Ah then- try a large nursery or hydroponics store. Phosphoric has been seen there before, for that purpose, and may be what you heard about.
The pH minus of the aquarium section that I bought from walcrap and still have is H2SO4. Was part of a pH test kit, which has been used many times.
One of the more useful products that they have.
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The_Davster
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I once did find nitric acid at revy as a pH decrease for soil. It was very dilute though because when a piece of copper was placed in it it did not
react to make a blue solution for about a week. I really should get around to titrating that acid...
[Edited on 29-5-2004 by rogue chemist]
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jimwig
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TRY THIS
a nifty little site with fairly limited database but still nice. lets you (limited) access MSDS of name brands but the neat thing is you can enter the
chemical compound you desire and poofoo there's the product.
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/ingredients.htm
there ya go a gift from the wigger.
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infamous1
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Unlabeled Products
Thanks for the website.
1.1001111000110111011110011011100101111111010010100111110 000010101111100111001110011000000011000000101
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guy
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I dont think your ph down is HNO3 or H3PO4 since nitrates are mildly poisonous to fish and invertabrates and phoshates contribute to algal blooms.
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franklyn
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[color=darkred]UNIVERSAL PRODUCT WARNING[/color]
WARNING: This Product Attracts Every Other Piece of Matter in the
Universe, Including the Products of Other Manufacturers, with a
Force Proportional to the Product of the Masses and Inversely
Proportional to the Distance Between Them.
HANDLE WITH EXTREME CARE: the Mass of this Product Contains the
Energy Equivalent of 85 Milion Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight.
CAUTION: This Product Contains Minute Electrically Charge Particles
Moving at Velocities in Excess of Five Hundred Million Miles per Hour.
CONSUMER NOTICE: Because of the "Uncertainty Principle," it is
Impossible for the Consumer to Find Out at the Same Time both
Precisely Where this Product is and How Fast it is Moving.
ADVISORY: There is an Extremely Small but NonZero Chance that,
through a Process Known as "Tunneling," this Product May
Spontaneously Disappear from its Present Location and Reappear at
any Random Place in the Universe, Including your Neighbor's
Domicile. The Manufacturer will Not Be Responsible for any Damages
or Inconvenience that May Result.
READ THIS BEFORE OPENING PACKAGE: According to Certain Suggested
Versions of the Grand Unified Theory, the Primary Particles
Constituting this Product May Decay to Nothingness within the Next
Ten to the power of 35, Years.
NOTE: The most Fundamental Particles in this Product are Held
Together by a "Gluing" Force about which Little is Currently Known
and whose Adhesive Power Can Therefore Not Be Permanently
Guaranteed.
THIS IS A 100% MATTER PRODUCT. In the Unlikely Event that this
Merchandise should Contact Antimatter in Any Form, a Catastrophic
Explosion will Result.
PUBLIC NOTICE AS REQUIRED BY LAW: Any Use of the Product, in Any
Manner Whatsoever, will Increase the Amount of Disorder in the
Universe. Although No Liability is Implied Herein, the Consumer is
Warned that this Process will Ultimately Lead to the Heat Death of
the Universe.
ATTENTION: Despite Any Other Listing of Product Contents Found
Hereon, the Consumer is Advised that in Actuality, this Product
Consists of 99.9999999999% Empty Space.
NEW GRAND UNIFIED THEORY DISCLAIMER: The Manufacturer may
Technically be Entitled to Claim that this Product is
Ten-Dimensional. However, the Consumer is Reminded that this
Confers no Legal Rights Above and Beyond those Applicable to
Three-Dimensional Objects, since the Seven New Dimensions are
"Rolled Up" into such a Small "Area" that they Cannot Be Detected.
PLEASE NOTE: Some Quantum Physics Theories Suggest that when the
Consumer is not Directly Observing this Product, it may Cease to
Exist or Exist Only in a Vague and Undetermined State.
COMPONENT EQUIVALENCY NOTICE: the Subatomic Particles (Electrons,
Protons, etc) Comprising this Product are Exactly the Same in Every
Measurable Respect as Those Used in the Products of Other
Manufacturers, and No Claim to the Contrary May Legitimately be
Expressed or Implied.
HEALTH WARNING: Care should be Taken when Lifting this Product,
since its Mass, and thus its Weight, is Dependent on its Velocity
Relative to the User.
IMPORTANT NOTICE TO PURCHASERS: the Entire Physical Universe,
Including this Product, may One Day Collapse Back into an
Infinitesimally Small Space. Should Another Universe Subsequently
Re-emerge, the Existence of this Product in that Universe Cannot Be
Guaranteed.
.
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Baphomet
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LOL making fun of the idiosyncrasies of consumer law and quantum physics at the same time - I love it!
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evil_lurker
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Here is the mother of all MSDS links...
http://msds.walmartstores.com/
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franklyn
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A very troubling trend
I have noticed that beginning in the last few years more and more products
which are the source of over the counter chemicals are no longer even labeled
descriptively of what is contained. Most notably absent is the percent
concentration of the ingredients which are increasingly not even itemized.
Not only in many cases is there no data evident, the actual name of the chemical
is not even disclosed.
Examples:
1. Ammonia solution so labeled in supermarkets without percent content.
. . Few hardware stores have a labeled meager ~ 10 percent concentration.
2. Laundry bleach will not say it contains sodium hypochlorite or its percentage.
3. Methyl alcohol if it appears at all is buried in the fine print of the label as
. ." contains methyl alcohol ", typically referred to " denatured alcohol ".
4. Common salts available from a pharmacy do not indicate their hydration.
5. Potassium nitrate is not disclosed in the label of " stump remover ", and is
. . being replaced by caustic " meta " salts.
6. This may be part of a planned phase out, but I recall that phosphates
. . still were available as dish washer detergents, this is no longer true.
These are just some that I recall, this is widespread. Something must have
changed with regard to mandatory labeling regulations. This may have to do
with the NAFTA treaty ( North American Free Trade Agreement ) I don't know.
How can anyone, even a consumer, assess the relative value of a product
if there is no indication of what you are actually buying. Much worse is that the
intent of labeling to facilitate medical treatment for poisoning is impeded.
I suppose one could track the universal product code in some database and
obtain a material safety data sheet. Still damn inconvenient when shopping
unless one has a cell phone that has internet access.
.
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MagicJigPipe
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Indeed. I have noticed the ammonia thing as well. I HATE that. I think another trend that it seems to paralell is that of stupidity and apathy.
Being dumb and ignorant is "in" nowadays (especially with the younger crowd). I think the market is simply adapting to the consumer's diminished
desire to learn or--to care. "Who cares what's in it as long as they say it's safe and environmentally friendly and it gets the job done. I don't
know any of those fancy chemical doohicky names anyhow and they know what's best for me anyway."
Stuff like this always reminds me of the skit in which Penn and Teller (I believe) got hundreds if not thousands of "environmentalists" to sign a
petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide. Without lying about it.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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