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CHRIS25
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Hi Adamsium, no you are right - absolutely. However I should have told you that I was adding Hydrogen Peroxide, and as long as I keep that topped up
copper chloride will form for as long as I want.
So the complete equation is (sorry my fault): Cu + 2HCL + H2O2 = CuCl2 + 2H2O, then as this reacts I get CuCl2 + Cu = 2CuCl.
That list you pointed me to I have as a print out. Problem is my knowledge of everything is weak but growing and I often do not really know when to
look at what. If you can understand that.
Many appreciations though for taking the time to help and correct me.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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Hexavalent
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You're welcome, after all we're all here to learn.
What is meant by double posting is what you've just done now - even if you have finished talking about one thing, do not post again for a new topic or
for a continuation. Your past two posts are an example. If you wish to add more info, use the edit feature, as opposed to adding a new post.
"Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." Winston Churchill
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adamsium
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Quote: Originally posted by CHRIS25  | Hi Adamsium, no you are right - absolutely. However I should have told you that I was adding Hydrogen Peroxide, and as long as I keep that topped up
copper chloride will form for as long as I want.
So the complete equation is (sorry my fault): Cu + 2HCL + H2O2 = CuCl2 + 2H2O, then as this reacts I get CuCl2 + Cu = 2CuCl.
That list you pointed me to I have as a print out. Problem is my knowledge of everything is weak but growing and I often do not really know when to
look at what. If you can understand that.
Many appreciations though for taking the time to help and correct me. |
Ok, that makes sense. Although, I'm not sure what you mean by that last equation. I found a link to a page that you might find useful for this. I
believe this is the blog of a forum member. http://thehomechemist.com/blog/cucl2synthesis/
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CHRIS25
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Ok Hexavalent. no problem, though when I do it - it is actually without thinking. I promise you I have no interest in being in competition,
especially since it would take me years to learn what most poeple on this forum already know in just casual conversation - and that is before they get
technically serious, (:
Adamsium: Hi, I understand that HCL is consumed and eaten up in the first part of the reaction. CuCl is the byproduct but upon being revitalised by
the H2O2 it turns into CuCl2, should I say it gets re-oxidised again, I suppose the two equations are like a circle. Please feel free to correct me
though....
I am a Copper metal worker, (Artistic not industrial) and wish to use this reaction to do Etching, instead of the Ferric chloride which is a wasteful
product and more hazardous than this reaction. (I can neutralise the first solution after months of use with Sodium Carbonate and then it becomes
safe for the sink, not so with ferric chloride after it is laden with copper chloride). Well this is how at this moment I understand things.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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weiming1998
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Posts: 616
Registered: 13-1-2012
Location: Western Australia
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| Quote: Originally posted by CHRIS25 | Ok Hexavalent. no problem, though when I do it - it is actually without thinking. I promise you I have no interest in being in competition,
especially since it would take me years to learn what most poeple on this forum already know in just casual conversation - and that is before they get
technically serious, (:
Adamsium: Hi, I understand that HCL is consumed and eaten up in the first part of the reaction. CuCl is the byproduct but upon being revitalised by
the H2O2 it turns into CuCl2, should I say it gets re-oxidised again, I suppose the two equations are like a circle. Please feel free to correct me
though....
I am a Copper metal worker, (Artistic not industrial) and wish to use this reaction to do Etching, instead of the Ferric chloride which is a wasteful
product and more hazardous than this reaction. (I can neutralise the first solution after months of use with Sodium Carbonate and then it becomes
safe for the sink, not so with ferric chloride after it is laden with copper chloride). Well this is how at this moment I understand things.
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That (etching copper with CaCl2), unfortunately, will not work.
As described by this site: http://www.p-m-services.co.uk/ferric_chloride.htm
the etching process proceeds by the oxidation of the copper to insoluble copper(I) chloride , then to a soluble copper (II) chloride. This depends on
the Fe3+ ion, as it acts as an oxidizing agent, easily reduced to Fe2+.
Ca2+, on the other hand, cannot be either oxidized or reduced (unless by a metal more electropositive than calcium) , which boils down to unable to be
reduced in aqueous solution at all. If it cannot oxidize the copper, how can you use it to etch the copper?
If you are just looking for a better, less hazardous etching agent, use dilute nitric acid, an acid+H2O2, or even bleach+vinegar (although the
solution is unstable and will decompose into Cl2, making it on-site and dropping the copper in should be reasonable.). The waste products can then be
neutralized with baking soda and the copper carbonate extracted and disposed separately.
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CHRIS25
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Hi Welming, Mmm, I know i have a lot to learn, and I will be studying a bit more stuff here. But I have already tried an experiment with that formula
and what happens is that the copper that is left exposed in the solution (After I have added a resisit) dissolves away. Effectively leaving raised
parts which is your design or your writing.
[Edited on 5-5-2012 by CHRIS25]
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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weiming1998
National Hazard
Posts: 616
Registered: 13-1-2012
Location: Western Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Amphoteric
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| Quote: Originally posted by CHRIS25 | Hi Welming, Mmm, I know i have a lot to learn, and I will be studying a bit more stuff here. But I have already tried an experiment with that formula
and what happens is that the copper that is left exposed in the solution (After I have added a resisit) dissolves away. Effectively leaving raised
parts which is your design or your writing.
[Edited on 5-5-2012 by CHRIS25] |
Did you mean that the CaCl2 solution worked and etched the copper? Or do you mean the acid+peroxide did?
If the CaCl2 worked, then this is something undiscovered, and I will try it myself.
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CHRIS25
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Hi Welming, no I had to add the peroxide. I used an 8m sol of hcl (24%) and 50/50 with peroxide. I added the copper and it etched.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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weiming1998
National Hazard
Posts: 616
Registered: 13-1-2012
Location: Western Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Amphoteric
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| Quote: Originally posted by CHRIS25 | | Hi Welming, no I had to add the peroxide. I used an 8m sol of hcl (24%) and 50/50 with peroxide. I added the copper and it etched.
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Yes, that would etch. The CuCl2 formed will oxidize the copper to CuCl as well. So it will continue etching until all the green solution has exhausted
to a white precipitate.
[Edited on 6-5-2012 by weiming1998]
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