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macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
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Mood: Electrical
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POM is also known as acetal in the copolymer variety and delrin in the homopolymer variety.
It is easy to find as a bulk 3d printer filament.
https://www.amazon.com/Gizmo-Dorks-1-75mm-Printer-Filament/d...
Might want to pick a non-colored variety though.
You can use naval jelly to decompose it.
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ManyInterests
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That sounds good. I had no idea it would give that much swarf and foaming. If that is the case I cannot give it a hot water bath since there is no way
I can fit my 1 liter boiling flask into a water bath in my mantel. I'll need to do the on-off dance with the power bar in order to keep the
temperature within the appropriate range.
That is something for the future. As it stands right now, I think I can order the formaldehyde online if I cannot find it in a store.
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Fyndium
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Water bath? In a mantle? It's like putting a ship on a ship..
Do you have any more classic heat source, as a kitchen mobile hotplate? Use that to heat the bath. And yes, I still suggest using CaCl2, because it
allows you to have water baths up to 120+C without any boiling, it just slowly evaporates and carefully add more water as it depletes.
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ManyInterests
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| Quote: | Water bath? In a mantle? It's like putting a ship on a ship..
Do you have any more classic heat source, as a kitchen mobile hotplate? Use that to heat the bath. And yes, I still suggest using CaCl2, because it
allows you to have water baths up to 120+C without any boiling, it just slowly evaporates and carefully add more water as it depletes.
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Sorry for the delay in replying.
The mobile kitchen hotplate? I've seen lots of people use that. I didn't get one because at the time I had already spent a lot of money on chemistry
equipment and I didn't want to spend that much more. Now that you mention it. It might be something I should get in the future. Right now I'm just
gathering information and taking a break from chemistry.
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In the end, I came to the conclusion that I prefer to spend the extra for pure 95% ACS grade H2SO4 from Westlab, I had bought some of the drain
cleaner for certain tasks where I was fine not purifying but I hate purifying H2SO4, I don't even recycle it like some people, can't be bothered, more
hassle then it is worth for me.
But not everybody is willing to drop the extra for the higher grade stuff and I totally understand resorting to purifying.
I haven't done any calculations, but it seems to me that the extra reagents needed to purify it with high % H2O2 and heat neaded to really drive the
reaction, the dangers of the produced Caros Acid, it was worth it for me to spend $27CAD for 500mL or $86.50CAD for 2500mL.
https://www.westlab.com/chemicals/chemicals/225-0298y-sulfur... |
So I went to westlab and made an account there. I never bought any chemicals online like this before... and I've mentioned many times that I live in a
rather small apartment. They said they don't deliver to PO boxes (I don't have a PO box though) would it seem strange to deliver stuff like that to an
apartment building?
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Syn the Sizer
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Not at all, I have had all my Westlab orders delivered to my moms apartment because I was living in a small town and we only had PO boxes.
They had no concerns.
Syn'
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ManyInterests
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That sounds good. I see a lot of useful chemicals besides Formaldehyde. Lab grade ammonia (28%) and calcium chloride to name a few.
I've also been looking for pentaerythritol. Any links for a supplier of that? I was thinking of making my own pentaerythritol. It was originally why I
wanted to get formaldehyde, but I also needed acetic anhydride (an ultra-restricted chemical) that looks like it needs a fairly elaborate setup to
make. It seems like too much of a pain to synthesis and if I can buy a bit that would be good.
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Syn the Sizer
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It definitely is controlled, but not illegal.
It is a Schedule VI Class A precursor but you can still legally buy it.
Our precursor law is pretty relaxed. In fact Westlab sells it, you just need to contact them to place the order for that reagent.
Off hand I myself don't have a source for pentaerythritol, but may be able to find one if you like.
https://www.westlab.com/chemicals/chemicals/225-0004-acetic-...
[Edited on 24-2-2022 by Syn the Sizer]
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ManyInterests
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Well I'll have to keep looking. It's OK, I don't want pentaerythritol that bad. But if it is really that easy to get acetic anhydride then... well,
I'm kinda surprised! But maybe another time. Westlab has some really cool stuff that I also thought would have been annoying to make, like
sodium/potassium nitrite.
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Syn the Sizer
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In the Precursor Control Regulations document (https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-359...) it states this under the "Limitations on Activities":
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Limitation on Activities
6 (1) No person other than a licensed dealer may
(a) produce a Class A precursor;
(b) package a Class A precursor; or
(c) sell or provide a Class A precursor.
(2) No person may possess a Class A precursor for the purpose of an activity mentioned in subsection (1), except to the extent necessary to
conduct the activity in relation to the precursor, as authorized by the person’s licence.
(3) A licensed dealer may import or export a Class A precursor or possess a Class A precursor for the purpose of export if the dealer complies
with the conditions set out in section 7.
6.1 No person may possess a Class A precursor for the purpose of producing a controlled substance unless the person is the holder of
(a) a licence issued under section G.02.007 or J.01.015 of the Food and Drug Regulations, section 17.1 of the Benzodiazepines and Other Targeted
Substances Regulations or section 10.1 of the Narcotic Control Regulations that authorizes the production of the substance; or
(b) an exemption issued under section 56 of the Act.
SOR/2005-365, s. 5SOR/2019-169, s. 29
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So essentially it's ok to purchase a precursor within Canada, as long as you don't intend to use it for the purposes of Section 6 Sub-Section 1.
But possession and purchasing them is legal. However some are going to be hard to explain. Like P2P, PAA, Ergotamine, though with this one, the only
lysergamide that is illegal in Canada is LSD-25.
Others can be be bought OTC like pseudo, and as I am sure you know we do not need to produce ID when buying pseudo here like other places. In fact I
did a social experiment and 5 days in a row, went to the same Walmart and bough 100 Cough and Cold pills containing 30mg of pseudo each.
Still others, people can import and sell online without any legal repercussions like KMnO4. I imported 2.5kg of KMnO4 into the country for me, and it
too is a Class A precursor.
On a side note several jurisdictions are pushing for Decriminalization, Vancouver, Edmonton, Regina, all of Ontario and even our Pussy Leader is now
considering this too as of December 2021. The question is when it says hard drugs is that just hard drugs Schedule I, or also what I call soft drugs
too such as the Schedule II, III, IV Controlled Substances.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/12/14/trudeau-decriminaliza...
Mushrooms are basically legal here, From October 2020 to December 2020 they gave I believe it was 23 licences to possess, grow and consume mushrooms.
They are sold online now on the compassion websites and YouTube even has advertisements advertising them.
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ManyInterests
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Wow... I mean wow. I did hear about mushrooms being decriminalized and how a lot of people are making small mushroom farms for personal use, as well
as sharing with friends. This is remarkable to be honest.
If that is the case, I might work up the guts to ask for acetic anhydride, but I have no idea how much it would cost. If it is too pricey it might not
be worth it. As you can tell from my post history, I am only interested in energetics, and I just want it to make pentaerythritol to make a little bit
of PETN. I wouldn't know where to start when it comes to making drugs, and the idea of consuming something I made after mixing (normally) toxic
chemicals is more than I can handle. And yes, I am aware that pretty much all pharmaceuticals are made this way, but I'd rather not think about it.
Seems like I overestimated the difficulty and process in getting chemicals! I'll definitely be putting in a few orders in the next coming months, or
at least towards the end of summer. I'll also be looking for antimony sulfide, since I am interested in making my own priming compound for firearms
(I'm a legal gun owner BTW).
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Syn the Sizer
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Nice, just keep in mind to only make small amounts of the compound. I personally am not as familiar with the laws surrounding energetics in Canada but
I can talk to somebody who may be able to answer more of those questions for you.
I will inquire about the acetic anhydride for you and PM you the details, so you know more if you ever decide to purchase it from them in the future.
I have dealt with them several times and I am comfortable inquiring.
Syn'
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Syn the Sizer
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Registered: 12-11-2019
Location: Canada
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Hey man, they fixed it, you can just add it right to the cart now, no questions asked, checkout, nothing needed beside the $15CAD DG charge, though
there is a delivery fee for orders under $100
I am actually kinda glad I contacted them and brought it to their attention.
[Edited on 25-2-2022 by Syn the Sizer]
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ManyInterests
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That's great... but I actually made a mistake. I didn't need Acetic anhydride! Making pentaerthythritol required a 20% formaldehyde solution, 50%
sodium hydroxide solution, and acetaldehyde.
I must have gotten the acetaldehyde mixed up in my mind with acetic anhydride. My bad... :\
I guess I would need to dilute the 37% formaldehyde that I am getting down to 20% with a bit of water, but beyond that, it is the acetaldehyde that I
need.
edit: I do want to say that I really appreciate what you're doing. This community has been the most friendly and supportive I've ever joined in a very
long time.
[Edited on 26-2-2022 by ManyInterests]
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ManyInterests
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I think I may not need to make pentaerythritol after all. The one thing I learned from this discussion is that ordering chemicals online isn't
difficult or involves a lot of paper work.
I found these two links from a seller in croatia on ebay.ca
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/164711065080?hash=item26598b65f8:g:A...
and
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/203833489096?hash=item2f756c36c8:g:I...
One has a simple 200 grams, the other is a fairly large 2 lbs. I certainly won't be needing 2 lbs (900 grams) so 200 grams will suffice for pretty
much everything I need.
I'll also ask them if there is any thing they need when shipping to Canada. I don't think there should be any issues because pentaerythritol isn't a
chemical of concern, so I don't foresee any problems.
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Syn the Sizer
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Np man, I agree this community is amazing with the help. I feel that this is crucial in this hobby too.
I we don't need assholes making people afraid to ask questions, we want people to be safe in the hobby. I mean sure I can be an asshole, but when it
comes to chem I try to help.
I am glad you were able to find the pentaerythritol, yah, buying reagents has never been an issue for me. For the most part they are all pretty
available. There shouldn't be an issue importing but never hurts to double check. Though there are actually only a handful of chemicals that are a
hassle to import.
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ManyInterests
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I got a response from the seller, they said they never had an issue within the US or Canada when selling it. They said they sold over 5kg of the stuff
without a problem.
Yep, I think I got me a sweet find. No need for many many hours and days of experimenting and ordering a plethora of other chemicals to synthesize
pentaerythritol when I can get a small quantity of it.
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