metalresearcher
National Hazard
Posts: 758
Registered: 7-9-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: Reactive
|
|
Hotter alternative for Kanthal ?
I use an electric furnace for copper melting or other metals, but when I need higher temps, I have to use a propane furnace. The latter is much more
energy inefficient.
One alternative can be iridium wire which can be heated in air up to 2000 C, but it is sooooo expensive.
Are there higher temperature affordable alloys for restistance wire ? I guess Kanthal alloyed with Mo or W ?
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3696
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
silicon carbide https://www.google.com/search?q=high+temperature+heating+sil...
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
metalresearcher
National Hazard
Posts: 758
Registered: 7-9-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: Reactive
|
|
In the meantime I found this SiC alternative as well.
https://www.kanthal.com/en/products/furnace-products/electri...
http://heatingelements.isquaredrelement.com/category/starbar...
But that is not feasible for amateurs, it cannot be simply and straightforward heated up by applying voltage to it, unlike Kanthal.
It has a much higher resistance at lower temps (< 1000 C) than at operating temps (> 1000 C).
It is more suitable for industrial applications.
|
|
|
rockyit98
Hazard to Others
Posts: 283
Registered: 12-4-2019
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: no mood is a good mood
|
|
Kanthal can be used to melt Cu. but need thicker and longer wire to lower the temperature different between heating element and the thing you need to
heat ,because thinner wire need large temperature difference to radiate the heat generated by the given length of wire. or lower the power of the
element using triac dimmer at higher temperatures . I brought 75gms of 1mm diameter wire for a price of 100$/kg for that i just read this hand book
just hours ago. i suggest you should read it.
Attachment: KANTHAL HANDBOOK.pdf (1.3MB)
This file has been downloaded 1175 times
[Edited on 13-12-2020 by rockyit98]
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose"-Meisner
|
|
|
yobbo II
National Hazard
Posts: 764
Registered: 28-3-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
There is also Molybdenum Disilicide. It can go up to 1800C
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-Kanthal-Element-6-12-1800/2...
Also called super kanthal (dont mix up with kanthal wire).
There are others.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=70334
Yob
[Edited on 14-12-2020 by yobbo II]
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
Kanthal A1 can melt copper but as previously stated you need heavy gauge wire and it is not as efficient as propane or oil burners.
Molybdenum Disilicide (Kanthal Super) is higher temp as yobbo stated.
Next beyond that is going to be carbon or tungsten arc furnaces.
And finally induction and microwave furnaces.
Carbon arc furnaces can melt tungsten and pretty much anything else.
Induction and microwave furnaces can vaporize carbon but each has their own set of 'receptive materials'.
|
|
|
metalresearcher
National Hazard
Posts: 758
Registered: 7-9-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: Reactive
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by macckone  | Kanthal A1 can melt copper but as previously stated you need heavy gauge wire and it is not as efficient as propane or oil burners.
Molybdenum Disilicide (Kanthal Super) is higher temp as yobbo stated.
Next beyond that is going to be carbon or tungsten arc furnaces.
And finally induction and microwave furnaces.
Carbon arc furnaces can melt tungsten and pretty much anything else.
Induction and microwave furnaces can vaporize carbon but each has their own set of 'receptive materials'. |
Well, using a fuel (gas or oil) fired furnace uses lots more energy to melt the same amount of copper, but in a shorter time, unless you have an 8kW
Kanthal furnace.
Lots of energy gets wasted by heating the useless N2 in air and venting lots of heat off. An electric furnace (induction of resistance) are steady and
can operate in a closed space.
|
|
|
rockyit98
Hazard to Others
Posts: 283
Registered: 12-4-2019
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: no mood is a good mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by metalresearcher |
Well, using a fuel (gas or oil) fired furnace uses lots more energy to melt the same amount of copper, but in a shorter time, unless you have an 8kW
Kanthal furnace.
Lots of energy gets wasted by heating the useless N2 in air and venting lots of heat off. An electric furnace (induction of resistance) are steady and
can operate in a closed space. |
you can make heat exchanger and preheat air with the exhaust , BUT only work with charcoal and also need high temperature tubes made from Al2O3 or MgO
at the hot end, then copper in the middle and Al at cooler side. i made one that worked so well it even condensed water from exhausts while melting
cast iron. i used coconut shell charcoal which have low ash (0.1% to 1% w/w).15 $ for 50 Lb bag.
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose"-Meisner
|
|
|
WGTR
National Hazard
Posts: 971
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
Member Is Offline
Mood: Outline
|
|
How much copper will you melt at one time? After it’s molten what will you with it? Pour it into a mold?
If it’s a large amount at once it’s probably more practical to heat with gas. Otherwise you can use Kanthal to provide bulk heating and use a
more exotic material for an inner “hot zone”. Think about how a light bulb filament is very hot, but the bulb is only warm. Same concept.
If you use a vacuum or inert gas then tungsten is also a possibility, again with Kanthal providing most of the heat.
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
You can use a heat exchanger with propane or oil fired furnaces.
Industrially this is common. Many home heaters also do this.
You probably can't do an efficient heat exchanger for home use unless you are using fire brick like a kiln.
Many kiln designs use heat exchange to preheat the air.
|
|
|
rockyit98
Hazard to Others
Posts: 283
Registered: 12-4-2019
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: no mood is a good mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by macckone | You can use a heat exchanger with propane or oil fired furnaces.
Industrially this is common. Many home heaters also do this.
You probably can't do an efficient heat exchanger for home use unless you are using fire brick like a kiln.
Many kiln designs use heat exchange to preheat the air. |
not at very high temperatures, the gas mix self
ignites at the heat exchanger and not at the kiln.in industries i think they heat the gas and air separately and also use much stable and cheap
methane (CH4) rather than much more expensive and less stable propane or butane.
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose"-Meisner
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
