Anders Hoveland
Banned
Posts: 208
Registered: 15-6-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Making a revised 'Anarchist Cookbook'
thought maybe members could collaborate to make a new section on energetic compounds in the famed 'anarchist cookbook'. Whenever young adults want to
experiment, they typically type this into a search, so it would make sense that, if one wanted to disperse information, this would be a good route.
propose that new more "atypical" compounds be added. such as various simple nitro-alkanes. the recipes should be as simple as possible so that one
need not have intimate knowledge of biochemistry to carry it out. Also the recipes should be adapted so that distillation is not required in any of
the recipes, and common kitchen ware can be used instead of specialized labware. emphasis on nitrations using nitrogen dioxide instead of the typical
concentrated acids, which are both more dangerous and harder to come by. I think less experienced readers would find a simplified synthesis of a
tetrazole refreshing, when all they are aware of is nitro -glycerine , nitro aromatics, and mixtures of oxidizers and fuels. I found the book's recipe
for "plastic explosivs" ,involving merely chlorate mixed with wax and petrol gelly, particularly pathetic. The NI3 that it shows how to make is not
particularly practical either. While the less watered down versions have acetone and H MTD peroxides, this is still overly basic and limited.
Also, if anyone is aware of good sources of "how-to recipe"energetic compound information available online, please post it. There seems to be very
limited information
(of decent quality) available. The explosives/weapons forum, and then bombshock forums are gone. ScienceMadness seems to be the last 'bastion of
enlightenment'.
[Edited on 10-7-2010 by Anders Hoveland]
|
|
|
watson.fawkes
International Hazard
Posts: 2793
Registered: 16-8-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I am certain you are able to start your own forum in which to discuss an recipe book of explosives for
clueless newbies that is equally as credible as the original.
As you might tell, I have rather different notions of enlightenment than you do.
|
|
|
bbartlog
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 27-8-2009
Location: Unmoored in time
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It isn't clear to me that lowering the (intellectual, technical) barriers to entry is a worthwhile goal when it comes to making high explosives. I
suppose if there were some specific notion of supplanting a popular but dangerous primary with one that was safer but less well known, there'd be
something to say for that; but that's not the original Anarchist's Cookbook. If people actually need to have the patience to read the COPAE or
something similar to get started with energetic materials that seems all to the good.
[Edited on 11-7-2010 by bbartlog]
|
|
|
len1
National Hazard
Posts: 595
Registered: 1-3-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: NZ 1 (goal) - Italy 1 (dive)
|
|
But then the forum would not look so active.
Theres a saying - measure 7 times, cut once.
It should be extended -
Think 10 times, post once.
Even better, get some education, think ten times, then post.
[Edited on 11-7-2010 by len1]
|
|
|
rrkss
Hazard to Others
Posts: 193
Registered: 18-12-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I don't like this idea at all. Energetics are not something that people who don't have the training or knowledge to handle should be playing with.
Seems like a great idea to atract kewls, cause them to hurt themselves and stiffen legislation against this hobby.
|
|
|
Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for spring
|
|
Oh, really now.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
|
|
|
-=HeX=-
Hazard to Others
Posts: 109
Registered: 18-4-2008
Location: Ireland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Precipitating
|
|
Actually, sorry to argue with the site owner here...
But, Anders KINDA has a point here.
IF the new people had a good, solid guide that was
A: Reliable,
B: Safety conscious
and
C: Written by experienced people
we would then see far less 'kid blows self up' crap going on, and the future generation would be stronger in sciences. At least, that is my opinion.
However... Naming it after the ACB is a bad idea...
If you give a man a match he will be warm for a moment. Set him alight and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Can we do a combination of the anarchists cook book and this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Lies-Tell-Small-Kids/dp/034083...
|
|
|
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by -=HeX=-  | Actually, sorry to argue with the site owner here...
But, Anders KINDA has a point here.
IF the new people had a good, solid guide that was
A: Reliable,
B: Safety conscious
and
C: Written by experienced people
|
----------
Written by experienced people
There are libraries full the them.
The 1943 Laboratory Manual of Explosive Chemistry comes
upon my mind as a good book to start with.
Curious — it pops-up not when I search for it here in Science
Most Mad. Can it be my fellow Brahman's are not aware of its
existence?!
Then there dobe a SL of — picks 5-books at random off the shelves —
Seymour Lecker Improvised Explosives : How to make them
Seymour Lecker Shock Sensitive Industrial Materials
David Harber The Advanced Anarchist Arsenal : Recipes for improvised incendiaries and explosives
Robert Wells The Anarchists Handbook
Ranger Benson Homemade C-4 : A recipe for survival
For macabre amusement I recommend —
John Minnery's 5-volume How to Kill.
As Canadian Minnery (where his books cannot be sold) said on a TV interview —
They how how to kill books - not how to murder.
|
|
|
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
|
|
|
franklyn
International Hazard
Posts: 3026
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Surprising this thread has not yet been terminated " with extreme prejudice ".
My 2 cents are that everything is already in a written form. Practical chemistry
done safely is most wanting of discussion. A bibliography with this specific
emphasis might fill a need. Still a work in progress though _
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2529
.
|
|
|
Hoveland
Harmless
Posts: 20
Registered: 20-7-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Except...
"One thing, there is not going to be a focus on energetic materials."
(quote from the opening offer of the topic: 'A project everyone can pitch in on!')
Are you implying that energetic compound beginning chemistry cannot be done safely?
I am sure there are at least some reactions that can make energetic compounds, and pose very minimal risk to the experimenter, especially if certain
useful precursors are available. And of course, this is presuming that only gram sized quantities would be made.
[Edited on 23-7-2010 by Hoveland]
|
|
|
Sedit
International Hazard
Posts: 1939
Registered: 23-11-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Manic Expressive
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Hoveland | Except...
Are you implying that energetic compound beginning chemistry cannot be done safely?
[Edited on 23-7-2010 by Hoveland] |
Ill suggest it. No it can not be done safely. Anyone looking for the AC does not know enough about chemistry to perform any operation correctly and
safely. I have years of first hand experiance with chemist and I know enough now to know I should avoid energetics at all cost. Its not that I dont
feel I could safely accomplish the synthesis with limbs intack its just that after a while you understand accidents can and will happen and risk vs
reward does not measure up.
A begginner in chemistry does not have this level of risk vs reward and can only see the far sighted goal of things going boom. Ask my old freind
::insert name:: and the local police why there was a large hole in the roof of his house. He's lucky hes in jail and not dead. I still dont know what
caused it but I can assure you from the damage done it was a pretty sharp explosion. There was a well defined hole in the roof roughly 20ft around.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
|
|
|
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Hoveland | Except...
"One thing, there is not going to be a focus on energetic materials."
(quote from the opening offer of the topic: 'A project everyone can pitch in on!')
Are you implying that energetic compound beginning chemistry cannot be done safely? |
Problem all the chemistry knowledge in the world is not a
replacement for an attitude of safety. And as always
familiarity breeds contempt.
Remember safety is simply -
What can go wrong?
What happens IF something goes wrong?
And this from low explosives - pyrotechnics.
9 Killed as Illegal Fireworks Shed Explodes in Ohio
New York Times 21v85
YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio, May 20 (UPI)
A shed full of what local authorities said were illegal fireworks exploded today killing
nine people and leaving two big craters.
The bodies were scattered across a wide area of Beaver Township outside of
Youngstown.
A search of the area determined that nine people were killed in the explosion, which left
one crater 10 feet across and up to 5 feet deep, and another 8 feet across and 3 feet
deep.
“They haven’t identified anybody yet” officially, Sheriff Nemaeth said. “Its Not A
Matter Of Being Burned, It’s A Matter Of Being In Very Small Pieces.”
Fireworks bootlegging is under federal probe.
Chicago Tribune 24iv83
THE SHED behind Theodore Boruch’s bungalow in the west end of Hobart, Ind.
Disappeared in two rapid explosions.
One Severed His Legs At The Knees; The Other Catapulted His
Flaming Body 150 Feet Through A Stand Of Trees And Into A Field.
Fireworks factory blast kills 11
‘Bodies lying everywhere’
New York Post, 28v83
BENTON, Tenn. (UPI) ---
An unlicensed fireworks factory exploded on a farm yesterday, killing at least 11 people
in a series of blasts that formed a mushroom cloud and hurled bodies into trees and
through the roof of a nearby house.
“We Have Counted 10 Torsos, But It Is A Pretty Gory Scene And
There Are Parts Of Bodies. There May Possible Be More Bodies,
There Was Not A Singe Body The Was Intact,” [County Sheriff Frank] Payne
said.
|
|
|
chemrox
International Hazard
Posts: 2961
Registered: 18-1-2007
Location: UTM
Member Is Offline
Mood: LaGrangian
|
|
so the point is "shit happens?"
If there are so damned many good refs why not post a few here?
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
|
|
|
IrC
International Hazard
Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline
Mood: Discovering
|
|
"Naming it after the ACB is a bad idea... "
OK, what about 'Prill This Book'?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
|
|
|
Pyro
International Hazard
Posts: 1305
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Gent, Belgium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Why not have a forum subsection similar to ''Prepublications'' where we post guides for all simple chemical procedures such as recrystallization,
simple distillation, the preparation of simple chemicals,...
Collect them all in one place, then when a beginner has a problem he/she can ask the members right under the procedure to be answered by anybody on
SM.
I have never seen a system like this and I think it would be very successful. Woelen's website is a great place for beginners, but does not have
''customer support''.
Ideas? comments?
OH, we can also include guides to simple pyrotechnics such as black powder, thermite, ... to lure people here to then get interested by the other
stuff. (which is mostly how it happens)
[Edited on 25-10-2013 by Pyro]
all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.  |
|
|
elementcollector1
International Hazard
Posts: 2684
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: Molten
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Pyro | Why not have a forum subsection similar to ''Prepublications'' where we post guides for all simple chemical procedures such as recrystallization,
simple distillation, the preparation of simple chemicals,...
Collect them all in one place, then when a beginner has a problem he/she can ask the members right under the procedure to be answered by anybody on
SM.
I have never seen a system like this and I think it would be very successful. Woelen's website is a great place for beginners, but does not have
''customer support''.
Ideas? comments?
OH, we can also include guides to simple pyrotechnics such as black powder, thermite, ... to lure people here to then get interested by the other
stuff. (which is mostly how it happens)
[Edited on 25-10-2013 by Pyro] |
I agree with this - this would have helped quite a bit back when I had just joined.
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
|
|
|
Finnnicus
Hazard to Others
Posts: 342
Registered: 22-3-2013
Member Is Offline
|
|
As an [almost] complete noob at practical chemistry (<strike>arguably</strike> theoretical chemistry too), this would be greatly
appreciated.
About the revised ACB, I once went looking for the book, which I found and preceded get all kinds of ideas. If I hadn't have found this thread, I probably would have hurt myself quite badly.
Edit: By the way all, that's how I got an interest in chemistry. Through this site!
[Edited on 27-10-2013 by Finnnicus]
|
|
|
elementcollector1
International Hazard
Posts: 2684
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: Molten
|
|
By the time I had read the original Anarchist's Cookbook, I'd already known enough to see at least the chemical 'recipes' were completely made-up.
I'd be glad to write about some of these processes, but where would the thread go? Would it be stickied in Chemistry in General?
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
|
|
|
Pyro
International Hazard
Posts: 1305
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Gent, Belgium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I was thinking a whole new section that works like Prepublication.
This way questions can be asked in the same thread, limiting confusion
all above information is intellectual property of Pyro. |
|
|
Agricola
Harmless
Posts: 42
Registered: 28-10-2013
Location: Brazil
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I believe nonsense titles like the Anarchist Cookbook (AC) were made up to bury under disinformation no-nonsense works such as Setting Fires with Electrical Timers since it is impractical today to really ban a book like the latter. From this point of view, the AC is good
at doing its job and doesn't need improvement.
|
|
|
chemrox
International Hazard
Posts: 2961
Registered: 18-1-2007
Location: UTM
Member Is Offline
Mood: LaGrangian
|
|
I like it. In a free society all information is available to everyone. Sadly most of us don't want to be free and especially don't want others to be
so.
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
|
|
|
TheGhostKing
Harmless
Posts: 13
Registered: 14-9-2013
Location: Texas, Dallas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lazy
|
|
I think this is a OK idea. Mostly because I only got really interested in chemistry though energetic compounds. It should me the potential for
chemistry and how given the right stuff you can make pretty much anything.
I seem to have difficulty referencing my hobbies as "safe".
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
