Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: I want some cyanide, should I choose NaCN or KCN?
fusso
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 6-12-2018 at 17:26
I want some cyanide, should I choose NaCN or KCN?


Which should I choose, concerning factors like solubility, hygroscopicity, cost (per mol!), etc?



View user's profile View All Posts By User
myr
Harmless
*




Posts: 48
Registered: 18-7-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 6-12-2018 at 18:27


For what reason, exactly, do you want cyanide for?

KCN is cheaper on Sigma-Aldrich.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DoctorOfPhilosophy
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 130
Registered: 12-6-2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: enthralled

[*] posted on 6-12-2018 at 18:45


I can think of some use cases where it wouldn't matter :P For gold extraction, Wikipedia suggests calcium cyanide
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fusso
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 6-12-2018 at 18:52


Quote: Originally posted by myr  
For what reason, exactly, do you want cyanide for?

KCN is cheaper on Sigma-Aldrich.
One rxn I want to try is making nitriles. Also I'm worried new legislations may be made to ban them in my country so I want to get some ASAP before they are banned. I favour other suppliers over SA as it's the most expensive.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2789
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Big

[*] posted on 6-12-2018 at 18:57


I would consider CuCN or Zn(CN)2 as they're much safer to handle and, IIRC, cyanide can be recovered by dissolving in ammonia and reducing with Mg. In particular, Zn(CN)2 can be used directly in the Gattermann reaction.



Quote: Originally posted by bnull  
you can always buy new equipment but can't buy new fingers.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fusso
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 6-12-2018 at 18:58


Quote: Originally posted by DoctorOfPhilosophy  
I can think of some use cases where it wouldn't matter :P For gold extraction, Wikipedia suggests calcium cyanide
So is Ca cyanide the cheapest cyanide salt? If yes then I can see why is Ca cyanide used to extract gold.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
DoctorOfPhilosophy
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 130
Registered: 12-6-2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: enthralled

[*] posted on 6-12-2018 at 19:33


I dug deeper into this. Apparently it started during WWI when the European supply of NaCN was cut off and we started making it locally but with calcium instead (https://dr.library.brocku.ca/handle/10464/9781?show=full). The manufacturing process also seems easier, being a continuous one step process (https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/cyanide-gold-dissolutio...).
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ninhydric1
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 345
Registered: 21-4-2017
Location: Western US
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bleached

[*] posted on 6-12-2018 at 20:49


Calcium cyanide can be easily converted to NaCN or KCN using sodium or potassium sulfate, filtering out the calcium sulfate and boiling down the filtrate, so it is pretty versatile.



The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Herr Haber
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 7-12-2018 at 04:14


I'd go straight for the salt that I need for what I want to do.
If several options are available then my other criteria would be solubility.

I am not concerned about using the salt or a solution but I'd rather avoid unnecessary manipulation in this case.
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top