Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Repairing My West Condenser

Repairing My West Condenser

MagicJigPipe - 22-1-2008 at 18:16

I (aka someone else) broke my West condenser. I almost cried because I got such a good deal on it. I would hate to just toss it aside so I decided to attempt repairing it. Fortunately, only the jacket was damaged. Basically, the "barb" got caught on something and was pulled off along with a section of the jacket.

I'm trying to get some ideas on how to repair it. I thought of shrink tubing, quicksteel, waterproof tape etc... Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT
And of course, whatever I repair it with needs to be able to accept a new hose adapter. I'm still thinking of quicksteel. I'm just not sure how good it is with glass. That way I could just mold it around like clay and stick the adapter in and let it dry. Hmmmm....

[Edited on 22-1-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

westbroken.JPG - 25kB

evil_lurker - 22-1-2008 at 20:23

Welcome to the wonderful world of broken laboratory glassware.

My advice: Garbage it and buy a new one.

You'll never get that working again no matter how much you try an rig it because cracked glass always presents a safety hazard as is it suseptible to further fractures, not to mention the remarkable ability to physically cut skin.

Professional repairs are unfeasable considering shipping is gonna be at least $10 each way, and the repair would cost at least $20, if its even posible.

Go to UGT or expediglass and buy yourself another one.

The_Davster - 22-1-2008 at 21:13

I agree on buying a new one...

BUT if you want to, this is how I would go about it...
First fix up all cracks and sharp edges by heating with a torch. Remove the sharp pieces on the funnel part. Using an old hose barb, which has has been fixed up in the same way as the rest of the condenser s mentioned above. Use ductape to end the cooling jacket and attach the new barb(maintaining the water pathway of course). Holding the hose barb at the location you want it, apply epoxy all over covering all the ducttape. Somehow hold the barb where it should by while the epoxy dries.

If I had to, this is seriously how I would go about this. You are also hereby bound to post pictures if you try this

.

I have played around with glasswork, and 90 degree angles are HARD to get functional and perfect. And even harder to look any degree of pretty. Especially with minimal/no special glasswork equipment.

evil_lurker - 22-1-2008 at 21:45

Actually I'd start by using a glass cutter to scratch around the outside of the jacket. Then hit it with an oxyacetylene (propane alone ain't gonna put a dent in it) cutting torch on the broken side... should shatter right off and make a nice clean edge.

Fire polish the edge, and then fire polish around the center tube. Then put in an oven, set it for the cleaning cycle and let it re-anneal.

It might work as an air condensor then.

MagicJigPipe - 22-1-2008 at 23:12

Ok, I am going to get a new condenser, probably not a West though. And I am still going to try and fix it. I will post pictures of my attempts and/or failures. I will probably end up cutting off the jagged edges and fire polishing them to make the rest of the repair easier.

Thanks for the help!

Also, what would you say would be a good "all-around" condenser? I will need to use it for refluxing volatile solvents (DCM, MeOH etc...) and distillations with these same solvents. What kind would you recommend that would be great for both? After that West (and the breakage of my Dimroth reflux. I'm having a bad year, I know) I am now down to 1 Liebig distillation head that isn't long enough for low boiling point substances hence the reason for me needing a "multiple use" condenser.

[Edited on 23-1-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

evil_lurker - 22-1-2008 at 23:42

Each type of condenser has a specific use and and function.

For refluxing and distilling low boiling solvents such as DCM and diethyl ether you really need a dual surface condenser.

Expediglass has two choices, both of which are ass cheap (relatively speaking @$100-115 considering that the big glassware suppliers charge $200-300 for similarly spec'd items).

http://www.expediglass.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIndex=...

http://www.expediglass.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIndex=...

IMAGE LINK DELETED - TOO LARGE

Personally I'd shoot for the 300 or 400mm one myself with the detachable hose connections... makes things a lot easier to deal with.

For refluxing stuff over at or beyone the boiling point of MeOH a friedrich or single coil (no outside jacket) condenser is quite suitable, with the friedrich being preferred. Take note that their friedrich are not like most companies that have a blow molded spiral core.. theirs is just a coil.

http://www.expediglass.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIndex=...

And most important, get some thin PTFE sleeves from sciencegear.com.

[Edited on 23-1-2008 by evil_lurker]

[Edited on 27-1-2008 by vulture]

MagicJigPipe - 23-1-2008 at 01:13

How much does their shipping run? I can't access that info without an account apparently.

evil_lurker - 23-1-2008 at 01:30

Best I can recall they go UPS actual cost so its not that bad i.e. $10-20 per order.

chemrox - 23-1-2008 at 18:13

A West condenser is very useful. Good for distillation as it has a high flow over a relatively large surface and it can be used for reflux. It can stand in as an air condenser or fractionating column if it has a few bumps in the end to hold media...the combination jacket/coiled coldfinger type of condenser is killer for refluxing and related but not much use for distillations except where the condenser is rigged going straight down. You can get a West on ebay pretty cheap. $10 + shipping if you hold out for the price. I have a 600mm one I got there. Don't try to salvage yours but you might save the carcass for when you start working with a glassblower.. the joints appear to be good.

leu - 23-1-2008 at 18:36

You can obtain some clear acrylic plastic tubing big enough to fit over the end and serve as a substitute water jacket and glue it (epoxy putty) to what remains of the glass cooling jacket and the end of the condenser

It won't be as pretty as it was before it was broken but it will work almost exactly the same

You'll have to bore a hole in the acrylic tubing for the hose barb before you start gluing it back together, you can make hose barbs from epoxy putty if one of those breaks as well :cool:

Thanks to E-L for the referral!

chemrox - 23-1-2008 at 18:41

Quote:

Originally posted by evil_lurker
Each type of condenser has a specific use and and function.

For refluxing and distilling low boiling solvents such as DCM and diethyl ether you really need a dual surface condenser.

Expediglass has two choices, both of which are ass cheap (relatively speaking @$100-115 considering that the big glassware suppliers charge $200-300 for similarly spec'd items).

Thanks for posting the links to Expedia. I didn't know about them. Forget what I said about keeping the carcass. These guys are really reasonable as cheap as ebay for dessicators..considering these are complete and you can count on the shipping. Thanks again E_L!!

Mr. Wizard - 24-1-2008 at 10:10

You could preserve the functionality of the condenser by removing all of the exterior water jacket with a diamond file. The new water jacket would consist of three pieces of automotive heater hose or clear plastic tubing and two sections of copper with barbed fitting for water line connections held in with stainless steel hose clamps. This water jacket would then slip over the inner glass tube after all the old glass jacket was removed. Smaller pieces of hose or tubing would shim up the size between the ends of the tubing and glass. It would be as ugly as a mud fence, but it would work.

Diamond files are sold to take chips out of china plates and drinking glasses. They leave a smooth edge and are very easy to use if you are patient. A good tip is to put some tape on the areas you don't want scratched up.

[Edited on by Mr. Wizard]

[Edited on by Mr. Wizard]

jacketrepair.jpg - 34kB

MagicJigPipe - 25-1-2008 at 02:57

Thanks for all the replies and useful information. I am elated to see such concern for my situation.

My girlfriend has admitted to causing this breakage and has agreed to buy me a brand new condenser of my choice when her tax return comes in about a week. I believe I will go for the double jacketed model evil lurker mentioned.

I also think it would be great to find a Liebig/West that could double as a column. I never knew those existed but I have often thought of the idea of a condenser/fractioning column.

EDIT
I'm still going to attempt fixing it. Even if I fuck up I can always use it as an air condenser (assuming I don't break the inner tube).

[Edited on 25-1-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

evil_lurker - 25-1-2008 at 03:35

Actually expedia has fractionating columns too...

http://www.expediglass.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIndex=...

The above are good for high boilers i.e. greater than 100-150ºC.

For ethanol and other stuff, I would go for this:

Thats basically what it looks like, you just want the one with the supports:

http://www.expediglass.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIndex=...

If its EtOH and ether or other low boilers, you may want to get something at least 300mm preferably longer. I have a 300mm column and I wish I had a 500mm.

For packing consider these.. they are pretty good, not as good as say glass beads but they work alright and exhibit some acid resistance.

http://www.brewhaus.com/Ceramic_Raschig_Rings_1_2L_p/4000300...

[Edited on 25-1-2008 by evil_lurker]

MagicJigPipe - 27-1-2008 at 00:34

I thought Raschig rings were supposed to be better than glass beads.

kilowatt - 27-1-2008 at 00:54

I successfully repaired a broken water jacket on my distillation head. It froze one time (yes, I had calcium chloride in it, but it got to like -30°F in my old shed during the winter and froze anyway) and broke the jacket off. Since it is a practically irreplaceable piece, I ground the broken shards down with a dremel (with a diamond wheel) and siliconed a split polycarbonate tube around it. I have used it many times since, and have gotten it to where it does not leak at all. I would recommend carefully cutting off the remainder of your water jacket (because the whole outer part could be weakened and prone to crack) and doing something similar if you can't easily replace the piece.

Here's a pic (look at the upper most condenser). http://www.chrisf.4hv.org/projects/chem/HPIM1363.JPG

[Edited on 27-1-2008 by kilowatt]

MagicJigPipe - 27-1-2008 at 13:46

A long time ago I used a similar method to make a liebig out of a plain glass tube. Before that I got on of those info tubes (acrylic I believe) that you put outside with papers in it when you are selling your house. I cut two holes in the lids for the tube, used those quick connect plastic tube connectors and siliconed everything in place. It took a few trial runs to fix all the leaks but other than that it worked surprisingly well.

I would, however, like to preserve the West functionality. I wonder where I could find a polycarbonate tube locally. What method and material did you use for the barbs or did you just stick the tubing in permanantly? Also, what about the ends of the tube? What method/material did you use to secure them to the glass? It's hard to tell from the picture because it looks so seemless. I can barely tell it was repaired, actually. If I can get mine to look like that and still function the same, that will be great. More than great. Fantastico!

EDIT
I was looking at the wrong condenser. I see what you did on the ends now. Still wondering about the hose connectors though.

[Edited on 27-1-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

kilowatt - 27-1-2008 at 16:07

I glued hose barbs into it before applying silicone with a fairly rigid MEK based adhesive. The specific product I used was Duco Cement but there are many like it.

quicksilver - 29-1-2008 at 07:04

I rarely post on this subject but I do repair my own glass. I've been successful about 2 out of 3 attempts overall (I've attempted dozens of repairs). An oxyacetylene is a must, as is a supply of sand or similar as you MUST maintain heat overall the repair sight. I use a Pyrex baking pan or similar pour sand and setup what I need. There is a real art to this as it's a "feel" thing when the glass starts to soften. It CAN be done by most folks IMO.

First, get the surrounding material (sand or whatever) hot and then start on the glass. Continue to come back to the sand....don't forget to keep that hot. Start on the edges of the break. The best thing is to practice first for several sessions to see where the glass flows from heat, how the pressure of the gas moves the glass, & how the glass retains (or looses) heat. If you have welded using O/A, you can repair a lot of glass - just my opinion. I am NOT talking about complex stuff: just simple breaks. The toughest thing is to deal with a break with two disparaging thicknesses in glass.

Generally, it's not something that would be worth it if you could just buy a new one. But if you have access to an O/A torch, it's really worth the effort to learn because it really can be done.