Wich ones are fair prices and wich ones aren't?
Also if I could choose between Merck and Baker (when products are the same price) , wich one is favorable?
Those are all substantially more expensive than anything I can buy at the hardware store (except the nitric and glacial acetic acids, which I can't
get there). In fact, I just picked up a gallon (3.78 l) of sulfuric acid for $20, which is what, 10 Euro. But then again, you didn't mention if you
require a specific purity; drain cleaner isn't exactly analytic (though it does appear to be good stuff).
Tim
[Edited on 1-7-2008 by 12AX7]Jor - 7-1-2008 at 12:53
well I can't get acids OTC, except for 97% H2SO4 drain cleanerbut thats still like 13,00 per Liter. I would have no problem paying 8,00 extra on Pro
Analysis from J.T. Baker.
Also i can get 10% hydrochloric ofcourse.
The only really good OTC here is 5L ammonia 25% for 4 euro.
And I will do only small scale inorganics, so I don't need to spend a lot of money, because 1L acid will last me long.
But anyways , what do you guys think of these prices.
Are there any ripoffs?
Very expensive
MadHatter - 7-1-2008 at 13:58
That's my impression - especially on the HCl. Of course I'm using OTC sources. The only
ones I can't get locally(driving distance) is acetic and nitric acids.Klute - 7-1-2008 at 14:04
Thoses are quite expensive. Technical grade MeOH cost me less than 10E for 5L; the acetic acid is roughly the same price, acetone even cheaper (costs
me more to bring at the chemical recycling company! Which i don't do anymore obviously, recycle myself) Nitric acid (58%) under 10E a liter. But of
course, if you can't find cheaper, it best than nothing, especially if they will last you long enough. But if I would be you, I would look harder,
those are pretty available chems. Try asking other Dutch members (you are dutch, aren't you?) by PM if they find these locally.vulture - 7-1-2008 at 14:15
Boys and girls, wake up please, you're comparing apples with oranges. Technical grade is nowhere near 95%, we're talking about >98% lab grade here
and it isn't a bad deal in that case.chemkid - 7-1-2008 at 14:23
How do you recylce acetone yourself, klute?Magpie - 7-1-2008 at 14:25
I agree with vulture. You should be able to get into the online catalogue of a major chemical supplier like Fisher Scientific or VWR Scientific.
This will allow you to compare oranges to oranges.
[Edited on by Magpie]The_Davster - 7-1-2008 at 17:06
How I order chemicals for home lab or the synthetic lab I work in:
I get the cheapest grade available, for neither home nor there have I ever had any issues with purity. From a proper supplier, even the lowest grade
is damn good.
Only for very precise analytical work, HPLC, etc, are the very high grades necesary. Or I suppose for pharmaceutical use as well.woelen - 8-1-2008 at 00:10
Jor, I think this is a good deal for the high-purity products you mention. But on the other hand, do you really need such pure chemicals for home
chemistry experiments?
E.g. the hydrochloric acid, in your area it is available as 30% acid, 5 liter for only EUR 10. The acid is colorless, so no heavy contamination with
iron or organic dyes. Nitric acid 60% or so can be obtained for only EUR 9, then you have technical acid.
I have acetone from a hardware store (Hornbach) for only EUR 5 per liter, and on evaporation this does not leave any visible residue at all (this of
course is not a guarantee for high purity, but it at least does not contain all kinds of oily stuff or high-boiling stuff). In my experiments I never
noticed adverse effects due to impurities. The same is true for the toluene from that hardware store. They sell 1 liter bottles with toluene and this
toluene is great for e.g. dissolving sulphur, and for organic chemistry experiments.
Even the less common chemicals can sometimes be obtained at remarkably low prices. I just ordered 1 kilo of Na2Cr2O7 for only EUR 8. I intend to use
this somewhat larger quantity for making CrO3, which I unfortunately cannot easily buy at reasonable prices.Jor - 8-1-2008 at 00:22
Well I have never seen the hydrochloric acid OTC , because Hornbach and Welkoop are very far away. secondly because I do not need alot for big
synthesises etc, its always a good feeling having 2,5L HCl 'Baker Analyzed' wich is going to last me at least a full year.
Sulphuric is not available for me in pure form, only the dirty stuff and even that is still 13,00.
acetone is too far away for me, but I will pick it up sometime. However its still nice to have 1 L reagent acetone.
Methanol I dont have OTC at all.
Nitric no OTC, only 'OTC' is www.drogisterij.net
But then still 'salpeterzuur' is 13,00 per L.
So I think for me the only ripoffs are HCl and acetone, but for some extra money I get a really good brand wich is ofcourse also nice
Im still considering if I buy or not.
PS: woelen check your mail!The_Davster - 8-1-2008 at 06:04
I forgot to mention, that I have paid worse for chemicals as well. When I was just starting out I would pay $40 CDN for 500mL of nitric acid, $20 for
500mL 95% EtOH, etc, but as these were some of my earliest chemicals, I considered it well worth it, despite being ripped off.woelen - 8-1-2008 at 08:18
@Jor: I checked my email. TIme to check yours
Quote:
Sulphuric is not available for me in pure form, only the dirty stuff and even that is still 13,00.
This sulphuric acid (MEGA ontstopper) is remarkably good. It is sold as draincleaner, but it is near colorless and I did a very sensitive test for
nitrate with diphenylaniline, which appears negative, and the test for chloride with silver nitrate also appears negative. Both are sensitive tests
(esp. the test with diphenylaniline), so the acid at least does not contain the common impurities like nitrate, chloride (or bromide).
I did another test with this acid, and that is how reducing it is (organic matter). Adding Na2Cr2O7 in small amount does not result in partial
reduction of the dichromate. This test also is fairly sensitive, because even a small amount of reduction makes the beautiful bright orange color of
dichromate less bright. It becomes more brown in that case. I could not see that with a dilute Na2Cr2O7 solution. So, there is some impurity, but it
is only marginal.
I use this drain cleaner H2SO4 for 90% of all my experiments, which require H2SO4. I have 500 ml of reagent grade (purchased for EUR 6 from a guy, who
stopped experimenting), and from this I only used a few ml up to now.
E.g. the very sensitive oscillating reaction (with respect to chloride and ammonium ion), using H2SO4, KBrO3 and malonic acid works like a charm with
this drain cleaner .
[Edited on 8-1-08 by woelen]Jor - 8-1-2008 at 09:02
Yes I know the 98% MEGA ontstopper. Its sold on internet for something like 15,00, but then you have the shipping costs just for 1 product...
Its only like 5 euros more and then you have Baker's sulpuric p.A.
A. little bit better quality.
B. Cooler bottle ,
I think I'm also gonna buy normal H2SO4 somewhere as this might be a one time opportunity to buy Baker sulphuric, so not just gonna waste it.
I have mega ontstopper OTC for something like 6,00 per 500ML, but it says 97% H2SO4. Where is the 98-97=1% ?
Did they change the composition or something?Klute - 8-1-2008 at 11:44
"Technical" was possibly a bad choice of words. This is over 98% pur MeOH, good enough for any organic synthesis. Sure I agree chromatographic
solvants or extra pur grade are much more expensive, but I didn't think that's what's Jor needed/wanted. Apples are nice, no?
Paying 20E for a liter of VMR MeOH is a ripoff if you haven't got subventions anyway .
Concerning the acetone, the "clean" acetone, used for solvant rinses, drying etc, I keep it over some dry K2CO3 and then fractrionnate it over CaSO4
or K2CO3, leaving a little slightly yellow residu (from aldol condensation and impurities I guess)
The darker acetone used for tar removal and other dirtier things is simply slowly distilled until half has past, the residu transfered to a
jerrican wich is handed to the recycling company when full. The distill acetone is combined with the next "clean" acetone distn. Of course, traces of
MeOH, EtOH and other solvants are present at some extent, but the acetone si used in a pissette.
For dry, pur acetone, I follow the Purification of Laboratory Chemicals procedure of adding small amount of KMnO4 to dried hardware acetone (or
recycled) refluxing over a little CaSO4, then I distill and collect over 3A molecular seives. That could be more than necessary, but I've only done
half a liter this way, doesn't use it much.
BTW, I've heard rumors of molecular seives slowly catalysing aldol condensations with acetone, redrawing ~15mL in a syringe from the tainted bottle
shows no yellow color though (3 months old). Can anyone confirm this?woelen - 8-1-2008 at 13:36
Yes, i noticed the difference with the MEGA drain cleaner. I have two bottles, and one says 98% H2SO4 and the other says 97% H2SO4. Both are very
slightly brown and in practice I see no difference. I think that there is no difference at all, and that the company, selling the product, now
slightly more accurately states what is in the bottle. The newer bottle says 97%.len1 - 9-1-2008 at 04:15
Quote:
E.g. the very sensitive oscillating reaction (with respect to chloride and ammonium ion), using H2SO4, KBrO3 and malonic acid works like a charm with
this drain cleaner
What is this? Also did you make the diphenylaniline?woelen - 9-1-2008 at 07:15
The oscillating reaction I performed is the Bhelousov-Zabothinsky (sp??) reaction. This reaction is totally screwed up by the presence of chloride,
and that's why it definitely must be done with distilled water and not with tap water. The presence of ammonium ion also is bad for this reaction, but
not as bad as the presence of chloride. This reaction uses manganese ions as reductor and as oxidizer, and these 'oscillate' between the +2 and +3
oxidation states. The reaction also works with cerium ion (+3 and +4 oxidation state).
The diphenylamine I purchased from an eBay seller (labthings).
Edit(woelen): Made link work again.
[Edited on 30-7-16 by woelen]Jor - 10-1-2008 at 14:45
I see now that I can get 1Liter acetic anhydride for 13,70 EUR and 2,5L for 28,40. I do not know where to use it for, but has it any uses in
inorganics?
I ask this because I'm not whether I might use it in the future (maybe they will ban it in holland as well.)woelen - 10-1-2008 at 23:55
I do not expect acetic anhydride to be banned in NL, fortunately we have a lax climate when it is about drugs precursors. The only chemicals which
really cannot be obtained freely are things like saffrole and related compounds. Helper chemicals like acetic anhydride, diethyl ether, acetone, red
P, iodine, sodium hypophosphite, are no problem.
The price for that acetic anhydride seems good to me, but buying it without having any use for it does not seem useful to me. I have 250 ml of this
(it was given to me 3 years ago) and since then, I only used 2 ml in a not so interesting experiment with anhydrous FeCl3. It is interesting for
organic synths, but I hardly see any uses in inorganic chemistry.
If you really fear that many useful chems are disappearing and you want to concentrate on inorganic chemistry, then I would suggest you to buy I2 and
red P. These two chems are really interesting materials and you can do many interesting experiments with them. Red P is not that expensive, I2
unfortunately is quite expensive, but still it is worth the cost.
.
