Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Questions about theroretical synth

Jackson - 3-10-2018 at 09:29

I have some questions for a theroritical synthesis.
The first is, the synthesis of 1,2 dibromo butane. The method I saw for synthesis is dehydration of 1-butanol over alumina to form 1-butene. Then it is reacted with bromine in the presence of an acid catalyst to for the 1,2 dibromobutane. My question is, Does the butanol need to be converted into butene or can the butanol be reacted with HBr and H2SO4 like you would to make bromobutane but with and excess of HBr? If the dehydration of butanol to butene is needed, what temperature would the reaction need to take place? 300-500C?

My second question assumes that the butanol does not need to be converted into butene. The question is would 4-amino-butanol survive the reaction to 4-amino-1,2-dibromobutanol using sulfuric acid and hydrobromic acid or would it need to be converted to something like a nitrite.

My third question is about 2-bromobut-1-ene.
I found a document about the synthesis with multiple routes, but I cant tell if some are more viable. It seems like some of the routes are just incomplete equations. The reaction of 1,2 dibromobutane with acetic acid looks the easiest to carry out but im not sure if it is a useable route. I will attach the photo with all the routes on the webpage i found.



12F456A9-E64D-438A-BA44-10C2BA799C9B.jpeg - 305kB

Texium - 3-10-2018 at 09:42

Quote: Originally posted by Jackson  
My question is, Does the butanol need to be converted into butene or can the butanol be reacted with HBr and H2SO4 like you would to make bromobutane but with and excess of HBr? If the dehydration of butanol to butene is needed, what temperature would the reaction need to take place? 300-500C?
The conversion to butene first is necessary. You can't just slap bromines onto a saturated hydrocarbon chain. Butene has a boiling point of -6ºC, so you should be able to carry out the dehydration under a reflux condenser and pass the gas that gets past the condenser into bromine. You shouldn't need such high temperatures. Heating a mixture of butanol and conc. sulfuric acid to full heat on a hotplate should produce plenty of butene.

JJay - 3-10-2018 at 09:46

HBr can brominate butyl alcohol without any H2SO4, but the reaction is faster with some H2SO4 present. The reaction proceeds forward at room temperature but is much faster with heating.

Nurdrage has a video on making alkyl bromides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydn1D4FSqkc


Jackson - 3-10-2018 at 10:24

Will it be dibromated or just bromated once with sulfuric acid/HBr?

12thealchemist - 3-10-2018 at 10:37

Jackson is trying to make 1,2-dibromobutane, so the reaction of HBr and butanol would be a dead end.
You'd want to use a solvent like DCM to perform the bromination in, but that's common practical chemical sense.

To the best of my knowledge, the amine would not be substantially affected by the concentrated sulphuric acid necessary to effect the dehydration, but any black carbon crud you form in that reaction would remain in the flask with the protonated 4N-butenylammonium sulphate. Acid/base extraction would separate the product. As for the subsequent reaction with bromine, I'm afraid I have no idea

The picture you attached looks remarkably like the result of a Reaxys search. As I have access, I shall fill in the missing information.

Rxn 1: With tetraethylammonium bromide; hydrogen bromide In dichloromethane for 2h Ambient temperature
With boron tribromide; acetic acid1.) -78 deg C, 0.5 h, 2.) 20-25 deg C, 24 h Yield given. (70%) Multistep reaction
Rxn 2: No more details regarding conditions, and the paper was irretrievable (Lepingle - Bulletin de la Societe Chimique de France, 1926, vol. <4>39, p. 757) Also produces cis&trans 1-bromo-1-butene
Rxn 3: With alcoholic potash, well known procedure-type
Rxn 4: Also with anhydrous potassium acetate, and produces α,β-diacetoxybutane. Unfortunately, the paper is in French, but here you are:
Attachment: Montmollin_et_al-1924-Helvetica_Chimica_Acta.pdf (325kB)
This file has been downloaded 291 times
Rxn 5: No additional information; fairly well known procedure-type
Rxn 6: Also comes from the above paper
Rxn 7: Either with potassium carbonate or sodium hydroxide; well known procedure-type

JJay - 3-10-2018 at 11:46

Quote: Originally posted by 12thealchemist  
Jackson is trying to make 1,2-dibromobutane, so the reaction of HBr and butanol would be a dead end.


Why can't you dehydrohalogenate the bromobutane and then dibrominate?

12thealchemist - 3-10-2018 at 12:15

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by 12thealchemist  
Jackson is trying to make 1,2-dibromobutane, so the reaction of HBr and butanol would be a dead end.


Why can't you dehydrohalogenate the bromobutane and then dibrominate?


That hadn't occurred to me... Though I think you'd get an overall lower yield of dibromide.

Jackson - 3-10-2018 at 13:09

So would it be 2-bromobutane + base —> butene
Butene + 2HBr —> dibromobutene?

JJay - 3-10-2018 at 13:35

Quote: Originally posted by Jackson  
So would it be 2-bromobutane + base —> butene
Butene + 2HBr —> dibromobutene?


No, butene + Br2 -> dibromobutene

Jackson - 3-10-2018 at 18:01

Alright. Would it be a mixture of 1,2 dibromobutane, 1,3 dibromobutane, and 1,4 dibromobutane? Could these be seperated by fractional distilation? I think they have different boiling points.

JJay - 3-10-2018 at 18:35

It depends on whether you start with a mix of different butene isomers. If you make 1-butene by reacting butyl bromide with a strong base, no, you will have only a single isomer.

Sigmatropic - 3-10-2018 at 20:50

Pick up a book already, this is getting old fast.

JJay - 4-10-2018 at 16:24

Oh, and actually 1,3- and 1,4-dibromobutane can't be produced directly from any butene isomer.