Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Am I doing something wrong?

MagicJigPipe - 24-10-2007 at 13:03

Sauron and now Vulture seem to think I create a negative atmosphere and should leave the forum. Other than my bickering with Sauron (that I stopped some time ago) I don't feel I'm doing anything wrong. I think it is a personal grudge and nothing more.

Does anyone else think that I am provoking their attacks?

If enough people feel that I am I will happily leave this forum.
If Sauron and Vulture could refrain from posting that would make things much more objective.

Thank you, in advance, for your cooperation.

After doing a little reading on this forum I have found that I am, by far, not the only one "victimized" by Sauron. I will still ask you nicely. Sauron, please do not reply to any of my posts unless you can refrain from the attacks. I do not want your insight on anything. I know it sounds rude but I'm sorry, you just cause problems that I don't want to deal with on a forum that I would like to be learning chemistry on.

Vulture, I am requesting the same of you.

[Edited on 24-10-2007 by MagicJigPipe]

halogen - 24-10-2007 at 13:52

You claim that you wish to be learning chemistry here, yet you refuse the assistance of two people very well versed in Chemistry. Like it or not, Sauron usually knows what hes talking about. As does Vulture. And plus. I've had an argument with Sauron before, but I bear no grudge. As I said, he is very knowledgeable, if bombastic at times. But I and likely everyone else is guilty of the same. As for Vulture, I don't think I've been on his bad side, but I might have and just not known it. Whatever qualms you may have with either of them, settle it by PM and not clutter up the board like this.

MagicJigPipe - 24-10-2007 at 15:41

I'm not sure you fully understand, halogen. This is beyond argument. It is getting in the way of learning. And I have tried to reconcile with him. I no longer bear a grudge. It is he who bears it. If getting his advice means I have to take it up the ass I'd rather keep my dignity and get my info elsewhere.

I don't think I'm cluttering. This is a legitimate concern. If everyone feels like Sauron. Then I shall leave.

[Edited on 24-10-2007 by MagicJigPipe]

UnintentionalChaos - 24-10-2007 at 19:20

Sauron is just like that, but he does know far more than his fair share, especially about phosphorous chemistry. I've been in arguments with him before and it doesn't mean shit at the end of the day. Anyway, Sauron has recently withdrawn himself from discussion largely due to people like you. Vulture rarely chimes in, from experience, so take a good hard look at the types of questions you ask, the types of posts you make, and the way you conduct yourself here.

[Edited on 10-24-07 by UnintentionalChaos]

woelen - 24-10-2007 at 23:00

Your first posts really did make me believe you were trolling us. As an example I will link to this:

https://sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2158&...

This kind of posts have made me very careful in giving information to you, or taking you even seriously. There are more of such posts, this is just an example.

Most of more recent posts have better quality, and for that reason I was willing to help you with e.g. the Pd/C stuff. If you continue improving your posting quality, then things are not lost at all and you can have a good and fun time over here ;).

My sincere advice to you is that you concentrate on that part of chemistry, which really can be done at home, without a 99% chance of killing yourself or getting in serious legal trouble with all kinds of three-letter agencies.

jokull - 25-10-2007 at 10:50

Hi.

I am replying to this post with some reserve, since I think that the main subject of this forum has to do with collaboration on scientific "entertainment". I agree with the other people that suggest to concentrate on chemistry and to PM with those members you think are "hunting" you.

In conclusion, now you know some opinions (very homogeneous) regarding your point, so I think it is not necessary to continue this thread and please consider to close it up.

Best regards.

MagicJigPipe - 25-10-2007 at 11:07

Ummmm... Not trolling. (Honestly, I didn't even know what that meant until I looked it up. Not to adept on the forum lingo) I guess my ideals are just... unconventional.

The F2 thing was at best a theoretical discussion.

Before I made this thread I had already reviewed my posts. I suppose rules in this forum are different from real life. I talk this way with my friends and "colleagues" all the time and no one gets pissed. It just seems as if a lot of people are on edge here. Maybe it's because atmosphere, mood, sarcasm, humor and facial expressions cannot be expressed accuratley online and thus leads to... misinterpretations.

Although I understand what you are saying I think that everyone would benefit from being more relaxed and less combative. It's just an online forum. Why make something that shouldn't be stressful at all, well, stressful? I have to much stress in my own life to be stressed out at a place where I'm supposed to be learning.

So, if I post something that doesn't meet your standards, maybe, just maybe, I could be told in a polite and respectable way without insults. Isn't that what we do in real life? That sounds like a great idea to me. What do you think?

woelen - 25-10-2007 at 13:08

MagicJigPipe, as I wrote, with your later posts, you have shown to me that you are not a troll :). But it is good to try to formulate things a little bit more carefully. E.g. the starting question on in the Pd/C thread, about getting a number of chems, including stuff like thionyl chloride, can be interpreted as trolling.
Imagine that I ask for sources of the following chemicals, or for instructions on how to experiment with them (well, small quantities, just a few liters :P):
- Nitrogen mustard HN3
- VX
- Sarin
- plutonium dioxide
What would you think of that?
Of course, this is a highly exaggerated example, and not what you write, but some of your posts reek a little bit like this (e.g. your post, I linked to above). I hope you get my point.

The problem with forums like this is that if people are new, then the first impression tells a lot. I also have experience with Usenet:sci.chem and over there, there were numerous real trolls, who posted the most insane things and simply did not respond in a normal way to what other people were telling/advicing. The number of trolls became so high, that I left Usenet:sci.chem, I was sick of all that trolling. Hence my sometimes allergic reaction when I see posts over here, which look a little bit like trolling.

I agree with you, recently, there has been a somewhat harsh atmosphere in some threads. We all should try to keep things relaxed.

The only poisons I want are the poisons in my chemicals-cabinet :P. On-line poison in the form of flame wars are boring and do not add anything to the fun of the forum...

[Edited on 25-10-07 by woelen]

vulture - 25-10-2007 at 13:55

Quote:

Sauron and now Vulture seem to think I create a negative atmosphere and should leave the forum.


Right, where to begin. First of all, I didn't say you should leave the forum. I just explained to you, in a rather harsh manner, why people could possible have a negative attitude towards you.

The way you interpreted this, namely as a personal attack, demonstrates exactly why you provoke this kind of atmosphere towards you and why you clearly haven't understood what I said.
Quote:

If Sauron and Vulture could refrain from posting that would make things much more objective.


You want an objective discussion by excluding people that view things differently from the discussion. Either you're trolling or you don't understand the meaning of objective.

Last but not least, in case you haven't noticed, it doesn't say administrator nor moderator next to your username, so you'd better leave this kind of condescending comment to the people who DO have some authority on this board. Again, this is another reason why people might not take so kindly to your posts.

Quote:

So, if I post something that doesn't meet your standards, maybe, just maybe, I could be told in a polite and respectable way without insults. Isn't that what we do in real life? That sounds like a great idea to me. What do you think?


Great idea, I just started with this post, see above.

Quote:

Vulture, I am requesting the same of you.


Request denied.

[Edited on 25-10-2007 by vulture]

chemrox - 25-10-2007 at 21:26

One way or another, and it depends on us, we learn that this is a forum for people who really know chemistry or who don't know a lot but are clear about wanting to learn and a lot that are somewhere in between. I found your posts very hard to follow and it seemed to me you were ignoring or arguing with people who were trying to help you even if their styles were sometimes as undiplomatic as your own. Cool your jets awhile and see what you can contribute and this will all blow over. These are just typed words after all, nothing to sweat about.

MagicJigPipe - 28-10-2007 at 15:15

What I meant was refrain from posting on this thread. You can't deny that your previous post in response to me was all but objective.

My jets have been cool. As long as there are no condescending, hateful, insulting or holier than thou type comments made towards me I don't give a flying fuck. That's the way it's always been.

But everyone has the right to defend their name, correct? I won't talk about this ever again as long as I'm not forced (by insulting or offensive speach) to defend myself. Is that not fair?

---all questions are rhetorical-- let's end this bullshit