Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Need Pd/C, Thionyl Chloride, V, Ir, Pt etc...

MagicJigPipe - 19-10-2007 at 17:28

I know it's annoying when people keep posting "I need this" "I need that!" but I can think of no other way to ask around for what I need. So forgive me.

I am looking mainly for a source of Pd/C and Thionyl Chloride. I'm not a professor nor do I own a business or manage a lab. So, if anyone who has access to these substances or has a little bit they want to get rid of and would like to discuss this further, please contact me. Thank you.

Sauron - 19-10-2007 at 21:40

What % Pd/C are you after? It is not restricted. Usually 5%, 10% etc.

Thionyl chloride IS restricted by DHS so you are rather unlikely to find any vendor willing to sell it to you. It is restricted because of its notorious use by Iran and Iraq in the production of mustard agent from thiodiglycol. The governments reckon that is a good reason to make it hard to get.

woelen - 20-10-2007 at 06:01

Depends on where you live. In the EU you can buy thionyl chloride (I actually have some, 99% pure, very light brown, almost colorless stuff). But it IS expensive (I had to pay EUR 16 + shipping cost for only 250 ml :().





[Edited on 20-10-07 by woelen]

Sauron - 20-10-2007 at 06:48

He's in USA.

Thionyl chloride is one I cannot buy or import in Thailand. Not without a special MOD permit.

In USA, just as bad. It's a DHS "any quantity" item.

Now, the thread author, if he knew anything about chemistry, would know he has other options for chlorinating reagent. But he does not, probably he is blindly following a recope.

He would also know, if he bothered to read the forum or use TFSE that he could prepare his own SOCl2, I can think of at least two methods. However, I think both are beyond his skills and resources. So why elaborate them? Both HAVE been fully explicated on this forum before.

Easier to UTFSE and fine a substitute reagent than to do same and learn how to make his own soup, then actually do it.

I doubt the thread author wants to mess around with 65% oleum, SCl2/S2Cl2, SO2 and phthaloyl chloride anyway.

[Edited on 21-10-2007 by Sauron]

chemrox - 20-10-2007 at 11:51

without a business and business (or academic) credentials you cannot get restricted items unless you find one of those "sticking their necks out" sources. These are so fragile that folks aren't likely to help you get to them. You could try one of the drug oriented forums like wetdreams.ws and ask there but chances are you're going to have to set yourself up as a legitimate business or experiment with different reagents.

Maybe you could replace the thionyl chloride with something else. Depends on what you're trying to do. Some of us are experimenting with TCT as a substitute or preferable reagent for many reax. Ask Sauron about it.

MagicJigPipe - 21-10-2007 at 22:15

I could have sworn that I edited that post to say that I know Pd/C is not restricted but you usually have to buy larger amounts, which I don't need.

Ahhhh, you just couldn't make it through a post without being a ... nevermind, I will attempt to be the mature one from now on.

I realize I have other options to chlorinate things. But I like Thionyl Chloride, it interests me and I WILL obtain some.

I know of one of the methods that you speak of and personally, since this reagent isn't absolutly necessary, I would rather waste my time trying to get some than mess with that stuff.

And thank you for the advice chemrox, but I would rather be castrated in a vat of hot NaOH solution than ask Sauron for anything.

I am a VERY easy going person. But I'm tempted to give this forum up because Sauron angers and disgusts me to no end. But that's what he wants and I refuse to give in.

P.S. I found an old school teacher of mine that is going to obtain some for me. He's calling me with the price tomorrow.
But thank you anyway, chemrox.

[Edited on 22-10-2007 by MagicJigPipe]

jam640 - 22-10-2007 at 00:23

The level of maturity has really sunken to a new low on this board lately...
Can't the people who don't agree just agree that they don't agree and let it be that way. No need to have a public pissing contest which just drives the focus away from the chemistry. Boring.

MagicJigPipe - 23-10-2007 at 09:12

I tried that jam. Yet, nearly every time I post something Sauron attacks me with his condescending, narcissistic attitude. I wish he would stop instigating this animosity.
Moving on...

I also need some 24/40 teflon sleeves. I need at least 2. I would rather buy them used than brand new as they seem to be prohibitivly expensive. At least for what you get. I mean, I purchased a solid PTFE stopper not to long ago for $7 + shipping. And those sleeves SHOULD BE less than that.

Damn these outragous labware prices!

[Edited on 23-10-2007 by MagicJigPipe]

solo - 23-10-2007 at 09:16

why don't you use teflon tape it works fine.......solo

MagicJigPipe - 23-10-2007 at 09:18

You know what? I can't believe I didn't think of that. Well, I did think of it. In fact, back in the day I used to make stoppers out of teflon tape wrapped around glass tubing. I guess I just got so wrapped up in using only "professional" equipment....

Maya - 23-10-2007 at 10:53

Is "teflon tape" actually pure teflon thru and thru? or is it just a coat of teflon on some elastic tape?


Reason I ask is that teflon didn't seem to have such elastic properties ....but maybe I'm wrong.


This is very important, b/c if its just a coating; then once that thin coat is penetrated.....................well you know.....

[Edited on 23-10-2007 by Maya]

solo - 23-10-2007 at 14:05

I've used teflon tape in very acidic reactions under long hour reflux in a closed environment without any problems also no stuck joints with it.............solo

BromicAcid - 23-10-2007 at 14:20

As far as I know teflon tape is a pure type of teflon, as pure as can be facilitated given its properties. I always found it interesting that the brand I purchase has a warning on the back mentioning not to use it in contact with molten hydroxides or elemental fluorine. Strange warnings for something intended for the drain trap of my sink.

Additionally check out Glindemann Sealing Rings as a substitute for teflon sleeves. They are fairly cheap, $25 for 50 or so of them and you can reuse them with care. Believe it or not they work well, even to hold a vacuum.

With regards to your palladium on carbon, you could always try to make it yourself. Stillwater Palladium sells in 1/10 oz increments close to market value, can't get much cheaper than market value. You'd likely have to acquire from eBay though since I don't think Stillwater still produces their palladium bullion. It's convenient in that the bullion is produced to assay a high percent already so it's a good grade for chemistry. The Canadian Maple Leaf palladium coins are the closest to spot but the smallest denomination is 1 oz.

woelen - 23-10-2007 at 23:18

This seller has palladium in charcoal, at a price of $6.50 per gram Pd/C, with 5% Pd.

http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/scripts/shopplus.cgi?DN=art...

Minimum offtake is 5 grams. This guy sells to private persons. I actually have ordered chemicals quite a few times at this company.

[Edited on 24-10-07 by woelen]

vulture - 24-10-2007 at 01:12

Quote:

You know what? I can't believe I didn't think of that. Well, I did think of it. In fact, back in the day I used to make stoppers out of teflon tape wrapped around glass tubing. I guess I just got so wrapped up in using only "professional" equipment....


You know what, why don't you just STFU if you don't have anything important to say? It's stuff like this plus your constant shady (to say the least) requests and posts here that create a negative atmosphere towards you. Not to mention the fact that you'll happily ignore any research done or advice given by other members after pressing them hard for it.

Professionals use whichever tool that gets the job DONE. If that's a 5 cent piece of plastic so be it, but it gets the job done. Whining won't get the job done.



[Edited on 24-10-2007 by vulture]

MagicJigPipe - 24-10-2007 at 12:26

Quote:

It's stuff like this plus your constant shady (to say the least) requests and posts here that create a negative atmosphere towards you


What? Feel free to search my post history for anything "shady" because I have no idea of what you speak (except for maybe one of my first arguments with Sauron). Maybe some are defensive, but shady? And I don't detect a negative atmosphere other than around Sauron, and now you.
Quote:
Not to mention the fact that you'll happily ignore any research done or advice given by other members after pressing them hard for it.


Again, what are you talking about? Are you sure you have the right person? Or are you just a friend of Sauron's? Are you referring to the fact that I wanted Thionyl Chloride because I was interested in it. Not to just chlorinate a certain substance. Is that wrong?
Quote:

Professionals use whichever tool that gets the job DONE. If that's a 5 cent piece of plastic so be it, but it gets the job done.


When did I ever state that I disagreed with that philosophy? I simply used the term "professional equipment" to define things like glassware, teflon sleeves and hotplates as opposed to mason jars, teflon tape and a kitchen stove.
Quote:

Not to mention the fact that you'll happily ignore any research done or advice given by other members after pressing them hard for it.


How would you know if I ignore advice or not? Do you live with me? Are you my "lab partner"? But you are partially correct, I will ignore you and Sauron because you have some grudge against me and like to instigate fights with me at every oppurtunity (just Sauron until now). I don't recall having any problems with any other members.
Quote:

Professionals use whichever tool that gets the job DONE. If that's a 5 cent piece of plastic so be it, but it gets the job done.


I agree.
Quote:

Whining won't get the job done.


When did I whine other than about Sauron attempting to belittle me?

And what's wrong with making the mistake of getting to preoccupied with buying premade things and not noticing that I could make it more easily? Are you TRYING to cause problems? I mean really, what did I say wrong in my last post??? Can somebody please clarify this?

Now, can we please just revert back to normal mode? This is just a waste.

MagicJigPipe - 24-10-2007 at 12:29

[Edited on 24-10-2007 by MagicJigPipe]

MagicJigPipe - 24-10-2007 at 12:33

And by the way solo, the teflon tape works great though I have yet to mess with any molten hydroxides or fluorine gas. Neither of those are good for glassware anyway so no problems here.

And thank you for the source Woelen.

Sorry about the empty post above, my fault.

[Edited on 24-10-2007 by MagicJigPipe]

[Edited on 24-10-2007 by MagicJigPipe]

MagicJigPipe - 15-11-2007 at 00:59

After doing some reading/research I have become interested in TCT as a cheaper way of chlorinating certain primary/secondary alcohols. I've been looking for an online source but have found nothing. I don't think there would be any place locally that would sell this to me (I haven't finished calling everyone but only 1 place so far even knew what I was talking about). What would I tell them I'm using it for? I'm sure if I said "to chlorinate alcohols and/or carboxylic acids" they would hang up on me.

Anyone have any suggestions for my search? Have I missed something on this? And before anyone says "UTFSE!!!" ... I did!