Sciencemadness Discussion Board

ATTENTION ALL ARGUMENTATIVE PEOPLE

Polverone - 19-4-2007 at 18:07

Some members here think that guns are too dangerous for the public to have. Some members here think that mind-altering drugs are too dangerous for the public to have. Others adamantly disagree. The disagreement is a real problem if it leads to members fighting, because it's doubtful that opinions will be changed and almost certain that some people who would otherwise contribute to science threads -- the primary purpose of this forum -- will be driven away by feelings of anger or disgust.

There are good technical contributors here from polar opposites of the political spectrum. However, many are afflicted with a reverse Midas touch (all their words turning to straw and plaster) when it comes to discussing ideological issues. For the sake of this forum's utility as a place to discuss scientific and technical issues, I'm going to be cracking down on heated discussions. I encourage the other mods to do the same.

I don't have time to read every thread, but if a topic is growing by more than a page a day, that's usually a pretty good indication that posters aren't sticking to technical issues. I'll be glancing at those threads and locking them if they appear to have degenerated into fighting. There are hundreds if not thousands of forums and blogs where knock-down, drag-out ideological debate is welcome, but there's only one sciencemadness. I don't have time to perform microsurgery on threads, so it's in everybody's interest to see that threads don't reach the point where they need to be locked.

12AX7 - 19-4-2007 at 20:14

Does that include Whimsy?

(I mean the arguments...personal attacks of course are mod-fodder.)

Levi - 19-4-2007 at 20:24

Hmm... pity. I rather like arguing even when it is doomed to stalemate. I agree that the recent threads you closed were in the wrong forum and that personal attacks should not be permitted, but closing a thread simply because it is "pointless" doesn't make sense to me. For me, the arguing is point enough to justify it remaining open--when I post on this forum I am surrounded by my peers--people of equal or greater intelligence than my own. Perhaps it's only because I live in a small town, but being around someone that is more knowledgeable than I am on any given subject is a rare occurrence (as I suspect it must be for many other members as well). Whether the debate bears fruit or not is a secondary concern to me as I thoroughly enjoy simply speaking with people that are capable of understanding what I'm saying. Please don't police whimsy too harshly. :(

Polverone - 19-4-2007 at 20:41

Yes, even Whimsy. I know lots of people enjoy arguing politics (I'm one of them) but it stirs up too much ill will to have it done here. If a political topic can remain calm and civil, that's fine, but threads will be swiftly shut down if the argument grows heated. No longer am I going to wait until somebody makes it personal, because people are already mad at that point.

Topics that have already proved their steadfast ability to provoke divisive arguments include Iraq, US foreign policy in general, drugs, and guns. I have strong opinions on all these things but this is not the place I air them, because I don't want to drive away interesting contributors who share my interest in hobby chemistry but not my politics. It's possible that I have commented on these topics in the past, and that if you dredged the site here you would find my views, but I've tried to avoid doing so for some time now.

I don't like placing further restrictions on what's discussed here, but even less do I like seeing people repulsed from one of the internet's few hobby chemistry sites because of rehash #2348723 of topics that thousands of blogs and forums have already flogged to death.

Sauron - 19-4-2007 at 22:56

I do not participate in Whimsy and did not bother to note the PW for it precisely becasuse of the America-bashing that goes on there. As I recall, at least one respected member has quit the forum over an anti-American thread in Whimsy this year. So while I personally do not contribute to the heat in Whimsy, I think Polverone is correct and we should stick to chemistry as much as possible.

Lots of other forums where one can run amok about Bush, war, gun control, drugs, abortion, religion, or whatever else.

chromium - 19-4-2007 at 22:59

Agree with Polverone and want to add that political discusions in the internet are useles anyway. To change even slightest thing in politics one should publish in magazines, be in television, lead protest meetings or at least to be in help where such things are planned.

Most of us can not (or do not wish) do this, so lets do our loved science. This is at least REAL.

quicksilver - 20-4-2007 at 05:24

In a manner of speaking I feel a bit guilty. I was the guy who started the Virgina tech thread. I had no idea it would grow to four pages in 2 days! I started to see a bit of heated discourse....Whimsy...same thing.... stuff starts to heat up FAST.
I have always enjoyed this forum and especially respected it's people; there is no way I would do anything to drive away members.
You have my word that I will not post anything I think that may balloon into arguments, etc. At very minimum I will keep it to science.
I really am sorry for posting that damn topic. The thing turned ugly before my eyes....

12AX7 - 20-4-2007 at 07:33

Let's all chill. You know, in honor of the date today :D

Sauron - 20-4-2007 at 08:38

Which anniversary have you in mind?

It's my wife's birthday April 20

Also Adolf Hitler's birthday.

Somehow I doubt you had either in mind.

Levi - 20-4-2007 at 09:36

Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
Which anniversary have you in mind?

It's my wife's birthday April 20

Also Adolf Hitler's birthday.

Somehow I doubt you had either in mind.


<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture)">4-20</a>

[Edited on 20-4-2007 by Levi]

Sauron - 20-4-2007 at 09:55

So? I honestly do not associate the date with anything deserving of note. Refresh my memory.

.

[Edited on 21-4-2007 by Sauron]

Levi - 20-4-2007 at 12:12

Quote:
From the previously posted wikipedia article
By extension April 20 ("4/20" in U.S. dating shorthand) has evolved into a counterculture holiday, where people gather to celebrate and consume cannabis.

BromicAcid - 20-4-2007 at 15:06

I am so thankful for this Polverone, so very very very thankful. I think this deserves a donation!

Organikum - 21-4-2007 at 02:29

Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
I do not participate in Whimsy and did not bother to note the PW for it precisely becasuse of the America-bashing that goes on there. As I recall, at least one respected member has quit the forum over an anti-American thread in Whimsy this year. So while I personally do not contribute to the heat in Whimsy, I think Polverone is correct and we should stick to chemistry as much as possible.

Lots of other forums where one can run amok about Bush, war, gun control, drugs, abortion, religion, or whatever else.

Yes you mix your political and moral opinions in your posts in the other forums what is very annoying for they would belong into Whimsy.
Also its you who always assumes that people want to make drugs and you post this again and again*. Thats against the interest of this board dont you realize this? You are not to judge others, if somethings out of line you can notify the moderators and thats that. Please refrain from this in future.

And contrary to what Sauron said I see that the problem arises mainly from the fact that more and more right wing to fascist US americans populate this board and they have this unnervy habit of preaching there opinion in a very intolerant way whilst accusing everybody else being not tolerant. What was it nice when we only had to deal with Polythene Sam´s obvious psychosis, now it seems that this madness got disturbingly common.....

If somebody quits posting on SCM because of a discussion in Whimsy I cannot help him, nobody can help him. Well maybe I could help him for psychology is my profession, but I really dont think I would like to and I doubt that the person actually realises the necessity of professional intervention.

regards
/ORG

*Your permanent accusations of others and your insisting that you are so very much against drugs again and again and again gives anyways the impression that you factually ARE either in this business or planning to get into it.

Denn:
Die größten Kritiker der Elche,
sind selber welche.

[Edited on 21-4-2007 by Organikum]

Nicodem - 21-4-2007 at 02:46

Quote:
Originally posted by Organikum
Yes you mix your political and moral opinions in your posts in the other forums what is very annoying for they would belong into Whimsy.
Also its you who always assumes that people want to make drugs and you post this again and again*. Thats against the interest of this board dont you realize this? You are not to judge others, if somethings out of line you can notify the moderators and thats that. Please refrain from this in future.

It is technically impossible for a pathological narcissist to avoid such behavior, so I actually have to defend Sauron about this issue. Even if I also dislike Sauron's obsessions to judge and moralize in non-whimsical sections of the forum and find it very destructive to the community, I still think he should be allowed to do so. After all it is upon other members to judge his judgments for what they are and not solely on what they appear to be. There is nothing bad in showing ones own symptoms, even if pathological, since our personalities are nothing but pure symptomatology of what we are. I never hide my symptoms so I fully respect others who do so as well.
Quote:
Originally posted by Organikum
*Your permanent accusations of others and your insisting that you are so very much against drugs again and again and again gives anyways the impression that you factually ARE either in this business or planning to get into it.

That is so very true. But we are not the law enforcement, so who cares?

Sauron - 21-4-2007 at 03:04

@Orgie,

Might I suggest that calling any subset of American members of this forum "right wing to fascist" is antithetical to the spirit of mutual courtesy and respect to which @Polverone at start of this VERY thread, would have us all aspire?

Characterizing me as a moralist has been your constant theme publicly and in PMs till I blocked those.

Anyone who knows me knows what an absurdity that characterization is. I have always been and remain a hedonist, an epicurean and a libertine. Marcus Aurelius I am not. I am irreligious. In fact agnostic.

Nice try with the little reverse saying that I must be a drug cook or entering the trade. But, again, you miss the mark by a long mile.

So save the psychobabble for whoever pays for your services (if anyone). I wouldn't want you to counsel one of my dogs. They don't need it and you are apparently not very good at it.


[Edited on 21-4-2007 by Sauron]

12AX7 - 21-4-2007 at 04:29

Quote:
Originally posted by Organikum
right wing ... have this unnervy habit of preaching there opinion in a very intolerant way


I find it funny that left-wingers can't tolerate intolerance, despite the tolerance they supposedly preach!

Nicodem - 21-4-2007 at 05:08

Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
Nice try with the little reverse saying that I must be a drug cook or entering the trade. But, again, you miss the mark by a long mile.

You are completely missing the point by an ever longer mile. The point is that if you are or are not involved in illegal drug production is irrelevant to your participation in the forum. But still you continuously feel the need to convince everybody of ("not") being involved in such activities. That is the most disturbing part! What exactly is your point in trying to convince us of being up to no good? Why do feel the need to behave like you would be following instructions from some terrorist handbook or as if you would be directing some huge illegal drug manufacturing operation? Is that just to annoy the hell out of us or is it to sabotage this forum? Or are you just trying to be kewlish in a more mature way? Well, grow up a little further. Nobody thinks you are kewl if you pretend to be a terrorist, mass murderer, drug cook or whatever else is on your schedule at any given day.

Sauron - 21-4-2007 at 05:13

Now, @Nicodem, you are simply making a pathetic attempt at being infuriating. Not working! But I do think you have overstepped the line.

I suppose you think you can goad me into a flame. How puerile. How transparent. How unidimensional. In a battle of wits you are unarmed.

Your interpretations of my motivations or actions are childish and insulting.

I have NEVER purported or pretended to be any of those things, and I have done nothing to make anyone think otherwise, including you.

Nor I might add have I ever advocated making WMD's, quite the contrary, but YOU accused me of that reecently and now you have a new Big Lie to put out.

Well, it isn't working, @Nicodem, because you have neither the brains not the balls to back me down anywhere and you never will on the best day of your life.

I will not be drawn into a slanging match with you. I'll not demean myself. You are unworthy.

Now anyway I can see you for what you are and so can everyone else. For shame!

Begone.


[Edited on 21-4-2007 by Sauron]

quicksilver - 21-4-2007 at 05:46

Jesus H Christ! This shit just can't stop! Drop this stuff, please. It's bizarre. However I did notice that it started off with the anti-American diatribe this time..... If you hate Americans so fucking much that's great. Don't let your daughter marry one. Develop different bathrooms for Americans to use. Don't serve them at coffee shops...at like a fucking bigot. Wonderful! ....but drop this shit NOW. It's getting boring.

[Edited on 21-4-2007 by quicksilver]

BromicAcid - 21-4-2007 at 05:53

I think maybe this thread needs locked now :o

Sauron - 21-4-2007 at 05:54

@Hg

That covers Orgie pretty well, but leaves Nicodem who is off on a rant against me individually. I am done rebutting him, he has cooked his own goose.

@BromicAcid,

Would that serve to stop @Nicodem from trying to pick a fight with me elsewhere?

No.

I have washed my hands of him and he is an unperson as far as I am concerned. Should he continue his offensive I will let the powers that be deal with him. He was obviously seeking an overreaction from me in order to try that ploy on me. It did not work, and now he is exposed and out on a limb.

[Edited on 21-4-2007 by Sauron]

Rosco Bodine - 21-4-2007 at 08:24

All right you guys , knock off the childish arguing .
Let's all act like mature adults and watch a vid .

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3851426890212250833

Sauron - 21-4-2007 at 08:33

That tune was very popular c.1979-

Rosco Bodine - 21-4-2007 at 08:41

Quote:
Originally posted by Rosco Bodine
All right you guys , knock off the childish arguing .
Let's all act like mature adults and watch a vid .

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3851426890212250833



Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
That tune was very popular c.1979-



McCain is repopularizing it , bless his heart .

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2007/04/mc...

[Edited on 21-4-2007 by Rosco Bodine]

vulture - 21-4-2007 at 09:13

And you people wonder why anti-american sentiment is as high as it is whilst posting warmongering propaganda and bashing other countries? Tolerance works BOTH ways.

I'm going to lock this thread now.