Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Making potassium formate from CO and KOH

John paul III - 10-5-2018 at 12:17

I'm wondering if I need elevated pressure to synthesize potassium formate from CO and KOH.
Analogous process for NaOH is done at 160°C and 8 atm.
Has anyone here tried this? How much would the yields suffer?

Melgar - 10-5-2018 at 15:18

I'd expect that unless conditions were carefully controlled, you'd get water and potassium carbonate. I'd actually be surprised if you got anything other than that.

John paul III - 11-5-2018 at 04:08

Quote: Originally posted by Melgar  
I'd expect that unless conditions were carefully controlled, you'd get water and potassium carbonate. I'd actually be surprised if you got anything other than that.

That would mean some CO would be undergoing reduction.. to what, elemental carbon? Even the decomposition of KCOOH results in evolution of CO, no CO2. I don't see how the carbonate ion would be produced. What gives you the idea that this would happen?

[Edited on 11-5-2018 by John paul III]

[Edited on 11-5-2018 by John paul III]

Foeskes - 11-5-2018 at 06:04

I cant think of any ways for the CO to get the extra O2

AJKOER - 11-5-2018 at 20:00

KCOOH patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6849764

Prepared from formaldehyde as a gas at 100 C into aqueous KOH.

John paul III - 12-5-2018 at 09:37

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
KCOOH patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6849764

Prepared from formaldehyde as a gas at 100 C into aqueous KOH.

I want to use KCOOH to synthesize formaldehyde by thermal decomposition of Ca(COOH)2. Therefore Im specifically interested In KOH + CO reaction.
Well, thank you anyway :)

CobaltChloride - 12-5-2018 at 11:43

Maybe you could try making it using NurdRage's method (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceL-I0azPH8). He first makes glyceryl monooxalate and then decomposes it to glyceryl monoformate. Afterwards, he hydrolyzes the ester to obtain formic acid.

Edit: Yay! This is my 100th post!

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by CobaltChloride]

John paul III - 12-5-2018 at 13:52

Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
Maybe you could try making it using NurdRage's method (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceL-I0azPH8). He first makes glyceryl monooxalate and then decomposes it to glyceryl monoformate. Afterwards, he hydrolyzes the ester to obtain formic acid.

Edit: Yay! This is my 100th post!

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by CobaltChloride]

Thank you, but let me reiterate: I want to use the most low tech starting materials (that's my chemical kink), in this case KOH from wood ash. The route with oxalic acid would be redundant in this case (since I would probably make it with Ca(OH)2 and carbon monoxide). I find it hard to believe that the potassium hydroxide reaction wouldn't progress at atmospheric pressure

Btw. congrats on the 100th post:)

[Edited on 12-5-2018 by John paul III]