Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Do this kind of pumps exist?

fusso - 3-5-2018 at 16:07

I want a pump that can do both "push" and "pull":
push: blow air into rxn vessel just like aquarium pump
pull: force liquid to go though filter faster aka vacuum filtration

and can pump both air and water, so that I can use it in both air-ed rxns and in a water condenser

Do this kind of pumps exist? if so what keywords should I use to search for such pumps?

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso]

Texium - 3-5-2018 at 16:27

Keywords: "magical fantasy pump"

There is no single pump that can do every job. Unfortunately you need to get a variety of pumps to satisfy different needs. This isn't a bad thing though, since you'll often need to be pulling a vacuum and pumping water at the same time, for example, in which case you'd need a water pump and a vacuum pump running simultaneously.

fusso - 3-5-2018 at 16:30

Quote: Originally posted by Texium (zts16)  
Keywords: "magical fantasy pump"

There is no single pump that can do every job. Unfortunately you need to get a variety of pumps to satisfy different needs. This isn't a bad thing though, since you'll often need to be pulling a vacuum and pumping water at the same time, for example, in which case you'd need a water pump and a vacuum pump running simultaneously.


Then is there a pump that can at least do the push/pull job?

Vosoryx - 3-5-2018 at 16:43

Yes. (Basically) every vacuum pump, save aspirators, can do both. Mine can.
I also have a crappy water pump to cool condensers and whatnot.

Or, you could go with an aspirator and get both liquid pumping and a negative pressure, but no positive pressure. (And that's a dumb idea anyway - again, just get 2 pumps.)

XeonTheMGPony - 3-5-2018 at 16:56

diaphragm pump does that easily, push and pull, a Gast pump does too but they are trickier as they need an oiler system

Dr.Bob - 3-5-2018 at 17:47

There are simple syringe pumps that can push and pull, with the right valves, you can move small volumes either way, but not practical for any real amount of gases.

But most gas pumps (vacuum or pressure) depend on gases being compressible, which allows greater efficiency. Most liquid pumps depend on liquids not be compressible, which means they mostly don't work with gases. BUt any vacuum pump must push gas out under some pressure, and liquid pumps, by design, must pull the same volume as they push.

But most pumps are deigned to do one task much better than the other, so one that does both pull and push often does both poorly.

SWIM - 3-5-2018 at 21:32

Sulaiman posted some tests on a peristaltic pump recently.

I suspect that pump he tested would do it all.

Don't know how long it would last, and it seems to be pretty noisy, but it pulls good vacuum and must be able to do liquids too by the way it works.

Sulaiman - 3-5-2018 at 22:48

Yes, a peristaltic pump would do all BUT at very low flow rates.

All small reciprocating pumps (e.g. piston or diaphragm) have two one-way-flow mechanisms and can both 'pull' and 'push'
the details of construction (displacement per cycle, motor speed and torque, valve type ...) determine
. liquid or gas (rarely both)
. flow rate vs. input and output pressures

The simple fact that there are so many pump types to choose from reveals that there is not, as yet, an all-purpose pump.

VSEPR_VOID - 3-5-2018 at 23:35

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
I want a pump that can do both "push" and "pull":
push: blow air into rxn vessel just like aquarium pump
pull: force liquid to go though filter faster aka vacuum filtration

and can pump both air and water, so that I can use it in both air-ed rxns and in a water condenser

Do this kind of pumps exist? if so what keywords should I use to search for such pumps?

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso]


Yes! There is a pump that does exactly what you want! They are easy to make if you have a 3D printer too!

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1134817

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:642192

By changing the direction of the stepper motor you can pull and push any non-corrosive fluid. It should even do for chlorine if you replace the tubing every once-in-a-while and provided it is not very hot.

PhenethylamineMachine - 4-5-2018 at 06:52

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
I want a pump that can do both "push" and "pull":
push: blow air into rxn vessel just like aquarium pump
pull: force liquid to go though filter faster aka vacuum filtration

and can pump both air and water, so that I can use it in both air-ed rxns and in a water condenser

Do this kind of pumps exist? if so what keywords should I use to search for such pumps?

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso]



I am having incredible difficulty reading your posts, which makes me think to ask if English is your first language, I always feel bad pointing out bad grammar if English is not an individuals first language. Any way, and I am not trying to be rude in any way, the better your spelling and punctuation, the easier it will be for others on this site to help you.

Edit: removed redundant content

[Edited on 4-5-2018 by PhenethylamineMachine]

This pump works well for pressure and partial vacuum

Sulaiman - 4-5-2018 at 07:08

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-24V-80Kpa-Micro-Piston-Vac...
80kPa.jpg - 23kB

I use it a lot for vacuum filtration and have used it twice for bubbling air.
It needs a 12 V power source.

Others here have even cheaper pumps in use,
I can only vouch for this type.

fusso - 4-5-2018 at 09:29

Quote: Originally posted by PhenethylamineMachine  
Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
I want a pump that can do both "push" and "pull":
push: blow air into rxn vessel just like aquarium pump
pull: force liquid to go though filter faster aka vacuum filtration

and can pump both air and water, so that I can use it in both air-ed rxns and in a water condenser

Do this kind of pumps exist? if so what keywords should I use to search for such pumps?

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso]



I am having incredible difficulty reading your posts, which makes me think to ask if English is your first language, I always feel bad pointing out bad grammar if English is not an individuals first language. Any way, and I am not trying to be rude in any way, the better your spelling and punctuation, the easier it will be for others on this site to help you.

Edit: removed redundant content

[Edited on 4-5-2018 by PhenethylamineMachine]


English is my 2nd language. I'm not offended by language mistakes.In fact I'm very difficult to offend. Feel free to use racist words when talking to me. I just thought most of you would understand my abbreviations since I've seen some of you using them like aka, imo etc.

"diaphragm pump does that easily, push and pull, a Gast pump does too but they are trickier as they need an oiler system"

Therefore I thought 'Gast' was a typo before I searched for it.

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso] edited: quote error

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso]

VSEPR_VOID - 4-5-2018 at 12:06

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-24V-80Kpa-Micro-Piston-Vac...


I use it a lot for vacuum filtration and have used it twice for bubbling air.
It needs a 12 V power source.

Others here have even cheaper pumps in use,
I can only vouch for this type.


What kind of pressure/vacuum can it pull? I just purchased an aspirator pump from china. I would get around to figuring out how I will run water through it. Does anyone know what size/type water pump I would use?

JJay - 4-5-2018 at 12:36

Gear pumps are bidirectional. They are typically pretty slow, though.

VSEPR_VOID - 4-5-2018 at 12:45

I just love looking at machines (in this case a pump) like this. I just have this idea in my head that one day I will build something wonderful, elegant in its steady robotic movement.

IMG_0122_preview_featured.JPG - 103kB

aga - 4-5-2018 at 13:06

An air-fed venturi vacuum aspirator does both.

Force air into the inlet, then if you connect to the Outlet, you have forced air (same as just using the air compressor).
Connect to the Venturi port, you have some vacuum.

Something like this :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plastic-1-2-Garden-Irrigation-Equ...

Ubya - 4-5-2018 at 14:23

Quote: Originally posted by VSEPR_VOID  
Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-24V-80Kpa-Micro-Piston-Vac...


I use it a lot for vacuum filtration and have used it twice for bubbling air.
It needs a 12 V power source.

Others here have even cheaper pumps in use,
I can only vouch for this type.


What kind of pressure/vacuum can it pull? I just purchased an aspirator pump from china. I would get around to figuring out how I will run water through it. Does anyone know what size/type water pump I would use?


i use a 100psi diaphragm water pump, they are common on ebay for about 15$

PhenethylamineMachine - 5-5-2018 at 06:42

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Quote: Originally posted by PhenethylamineMachine  
Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
I want a pump that can do both "push" and "pull":
push: blow air into rxn vessel just like aquarium pump
pull: force liquid to go though filter faster aka vacuum filtration

and can pump both air and water, so that I can use it in both air-ed rxns and in a water condenser

Do this kind of pumps exist? if so what keywords should I use to search for such pumps?

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso]



I am having incredible difficulty reading your posts, which makes me think to ask if English is your first language, I always feel bad pointing out bad grammar if English is not an individuals first language. Any way, and I am not trying to be rude in any way, the better your spelling and punctuation, the easier it will be for others on this site to help you.

Edit: removed redundant content

[Edited on 4-5-2018 by PhenethylamineMachine]


English is my 2nd language. I'm not offended by language mistakes.In fact I'm very difficult to offend. Feel free to use racist words when talking to me. I just thought most of you would understand my abbreviations since I've seen some of you using them like aka, imo etc.

"diaphragm pump does that easily, push and pull, a Gast pump does too but they are trickier as they need an oiler system"

Therefore I thought 'Gast' was a typo before I searched for it.

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso] edited: quote error

[Edited on 04/05/18 by fusso]


Ok, thank you for understanding.

I somewhat know how it feels, I had to translate "Phenethylamine: Von der Struktur zur Funktion" by Daniel Trachsel into English, and had to communicate via e-mail with German chemists during the process, and I am sure I brutalized their language.

Again, I did not mean any offense, it's just that I have a high affinity for language, and improper linguistics, written or spoken, tend to bother me, which is odd as I am sure that I myself make plenty of mistakes in this area.

Any way, it seems that you are getting by just fine and that others are not having communication issues here, so please pardon the comment.


*( I wouldn't use racist words, even if nobody was offended. We are all the same race, human. Attempts to section off and divide humanity are nothing but detrimental to the species, and often times racist ideas and terms are used to dehumanize individuals and to justify negative actions or violence against them. By using racist words you are allowing those concepts and thoughts to seep into your mental structuring and and outlook. I feel one must be very mindful of their thoughts, words, and actions. But this is off topic, so I'm stopping here. )

sodium_stearate - 5-5-2018 at 08:24

Quote: Originally posted by PhenethylamineMachine  


We are all the same race, human. Attempts to section off and divide humanity are nothing but detrimental to the species, and often times racist ideas and terms are used to dehumanize individuals and to justify negative actions or violence against them. By using racist words you are allowing those concepts and thoughts to seep into your mental structuring and and outlook. I feel one must be very mindful of their thoughts, words, and actions. But this is off topic, so I'm stopping here. )


Ok then...glad to know that!
We must all apparently maintain a very inclusive
definition of what, exactly, it means to be "human".:D

PhenethylamineMachine - 5-5-2018 at 09:16

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Quote: Originally posted by PhenethylamineMachine  


We are all the same race, human. Attempts to section off and divide humanity are nothing but detrimental to the species, and often times racist ideas and terms are used to dehumanize individuals and to justify negative actions or violence against them. By using racist words you are allowing those concepts and thoughts to seep into your mental structuring and and outlook. I feel one must be very mindful of their thoughts, words, and actions. But this is off topic, so I'm stopping here. )


Ok then...glad to know that!
We must all apparently maintain a very inclusive
definition of what, exactly, it means to be "human".:D


Not sure you understood what I was saying, but hey, interpret it how you want.

fusso - 5-5-2018 at 10:56

Quote: Originally posted by PhenethylamineMachine  
Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Quote: Originally posted by PhenethylamineMachine  


We are all the same race, human. Attempts to section off and divide humanity are nothing but detrimental to the species, and often times racist ideas and terms are used to dehumanize individuals and to justify negative actions or violence against them. By using racist words you are allowing those concepts and thoughts to seep into your mental structuring and and outlook. I feel one must be very mindful of their thoughts, words, and actions. But this is off topic, so I'm stopping here. )


Ok then...glad to know that!
We must all apparently maintain a very inclusive
definition of what, exactly, it means to be "human".:D


Not sure you understood what I was saying, but hey, interpret it how you want.



I think it's enough off topic.

beerwiz - 6-5-2018 at 00:38

So what you need is a pump that can:

1. Pull vacuum
2. Push air -- pressure
3. Recirculate water

I've never seen one that can do all three.

This pump can pull a strong vacuum (25mmHg) and you can distill water at room temperature with it and it can recirculate water for the condenser. You can put ice in the holding tank to make even stronger vacuum and cool the condenser.

There's two ports (barbs for hoses) in the back that you can't see in the picture for water in and water out going to the condenser. The ports/barbs in the front are 2 vacuum ports, you can use one or you can use both with the included adapter at the same time for even stronger vacuum. When you only need vacuum, you put a hose connecting the back two barbs together and this closes the water circulation loop.

This pump is also good because you don't need a cold trap.


distill.jpeg - 82kB

[Edited on 6-5-2018 by beerwiz]

beerwiz - 6-5-2018 at 00:41

Then there's this type of vacuum/pressure pump that can pull vacuum (weak 150mmHg, good only for buchner filtration) and also has pressure port for flash chromatography or pushing air into something like an aquarium air pump.

vacpressure.jpeg - 101kB

[Edited on 6-5-2018 by beerwiz]

fusso - 8-5-2018 at 12:24

@beerwiz what are they called? how much are they?