Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Organic Waste Disposal

Organic Waste Disposal

G_Lar - 30-4-2018 at 19:52

I'm pretty fresh out of organic chemistry I and II in college and I am trying to set up the basic provisions necessary to do recreational synthesis in my downtime because the classes and labs fascinated me.

Anyhow, I am trying to figure out how I will dispose of my organic waste (both solid and liquid) in a way that will not destroy the environment and contaminate my property. I looked at some local waste disposal facilities. The household hazardous waste company websites say they won't take reactive or unknown chemicals. I would keep a log of my waste of course. The places that will dispose of organics seem to only accept from established companies or small businesses, not a single person doing recreational synthesis in their garage; they don't seem like they will take chemical drop-offs at their facilities.

How do you recommend I dispose of my organic waste?

Deathunter88 - 30-4-2018 at 23:29

Quote: Originally posted by G_Lar

I'm pretty fresh out of organic chemistry I and II in college and I am trying to set up the basic provisions necessary to do recreational synthesis in my downtime because the classes and labs fascinated me.

Anyhow, I am trying to figure out how I will dispose of my organic waste (both solid and liquid) in a way that will not destroy the environment and contaminate my property. I looked at some local waste disposal facilities. The household hazardous waste company websites say they won't take reactive or unknown chemicals. I would keep a log of my waste of course. The places that will dispose of organics seem to only accept from established companies or small businesses, not a single person doing recreational synthesis in their garage; they don't seem like they will take chemical drop-offs at their facilities.

How do you recommend I dispose of my organic waste?

What specific compounds are we talking about?

VSEPR_VOID - 30-4-2018 at 23:42

I would think that unless you are working with large amounts of water soluble heavy metal compounds its not that big a deal. I do not think it will affect the city water so much if you dump a bit of phenol, a few grams of aniline, or even a liter of chloroform down the pipe.

That being said it all depends on what you are doing. What in particular do you plan to make? Will you be making simple hydrocarbons, azo dyes, esters, organophosphates, or something similar? Maybe you could ask a local university or college what they do with their waste.

CouchHatter - 1-5-2018 at 08:16

There are similar posts to this one, they have some great answers. I decided upon the 'casing the chemical in concrete' solution, as it is cheap and will basically be entombed forever. Not replacing the water that you'd normally mix concrete with, with your chemicals. Concrete is porous and it would likely leach out this way. Instead, case your container inside concrete, then bury it or something.

unionised - 1-5-2018 at 11:30

For a lot of things a reasonable option is to add diesel fuel, pour it onto scrap timber or paper and burn it. It's particularly good if you have a garden bonfire anyway.

Reboot - 6-5-2018 at 08:05

Please do NOT dump chlorinated solvents down the drain; they're a serious environmental problem. If you have a liter of chloroform, recover it. Save halogenated solvents, redistill and reuse.

If you can burn things in your yard/area, that's a good option for small amounts of non-halogenated waste solvents.

Small amounts of dilute acid/base/non-toxic (relatively) salt solutions can go down the drain. Small amounts of solids can generally be put in the general trash, with the exception of unusually toxic things like mercury and chromates. Landfills hate liquids. All things being equal, the same amount of a chemical in a liter of water will bother them a lot more than the chemical in dry form.

Waste management is something to think about before you synthesize anything. Plan your work flow to minimize waste (such as by using more efficient processes/smaller scale experiments) and avoid reagents that create special disposal problems (like mercury.)

BromicAcid - 6-5-2018 at 09:15

Quote: Originally posted by Reboot

Please do NOT dump chlorinated solvents down the drain; they're a serious environmental problem. If you have a liter of chloroform, recover it. Save halogenated solvents, redistill and reuse.

Totally agree. People in their back yards are not the only source of chloroform, it is regulated by the clean water act. If your local water treatment facility starts spiking for halogenated compounds they can track down the source....

Quote:

The EPA limit for total trihalomethanes, a class of chemicals that includes chloroform, in drinking water is 100 micrograms per liter

So that hundred milliliters your pour down your drain has now rendered thousands of liters of water undrinkable.

[Edited on 5/6/2018 by BromicAcid]

unionised - 6-5-2018 at 11:46

Fortunately, nobody is drinking the water that' gone down the drain so the fact that it's "undrinkable" hardly matters.
I flush 100 ml of chloroform down my drain and ten thousand people in my town flush the toilet.
Problem solved.
And that's before you remember that the water treatment system will remove it fairly well.
It's interesting to consider how much chloroform the water companies flush down the drain .
Chlorination of most water will create chloroform- not much because the limit is 80 parts per billion.
But a billion grams of water is only a thousand tons.
London uses 2.6 billion litres a day so, at 80 parts per billion that's something like 200 litres of chloroform per day they could produce and flush.

Having said all that, if you really need to get rid of waste chloroform (rather than recycle it) the best bet is probably to pour it on some concrete somewhere uninhabited and let the UV and oxygen in the air destroy it.

Reboot - 6-5-2018 at 12:50

Quote: Originally posted by unionised

I flush 100 ml of chloroform down my drain and ten thousand people in my town flush the toilet.
Problem solved.

While your position isn't without it's logic, it's clearly in violation of the pollution laws (at least on my side of the pond), and for it to work you have to assume that there aren't plenty of other people giving themselves the same excuse.

Science matters, but let's not forget the political/public perception aspects. For me, there are some red-line issues on things you can dump down the drain. Mercury is one. Chlorinated solvents is another. The regulators (and the public) will not accept your 'acceptable level of ultimate dilution' argument as a good reason for not having taken care of your waste stream like a professional in the first place.

If nothing else, the government has had to spend a lot of money on spills/dumping that didn't reach hazardous concentrations because the mere fact that there was a release requires followup and monitoring.

'No single raindrop thinks they're responsible for the flood.' And perhaps they aren't. But each raindrop can add up.

BromicAcid - 6-5-2018 at 13:20

I've posted about it before, Fenton's Regent makes quick work of chlorinated solvents.

aga - 6-5-2018 at 13:21

The OP never mentioned 'chlorinated waste', just "organic waste (both solid and liquid)".

In any event, surely a Home Chemist would not produce a kilo of anything.

So, the problem is how to dispose of very small quantities of unwanted Organic materials, possibly unknown species.

Bleach+Time are your friends.

Where Bleach fails, Fire works well.

Volatile OC material will simply evaporate away, e.g. DCM.

If your intent is to make metallo-organic species, i have to suggest that you do Not.

Failure to understand them even as far as their Disposal is concerned is cause enough to raise several alarms.

woelen - 7-5-2018 at 01:49

I'll give a few concrete compounds and what I do with their waste. That may help you decide what to do with your waste in many cases.

- mineral acids (HNO3, H2SO3, H2SO4, HCl, H3PO4, H3PO3) all can go down the drain, even in somewhat larger quantities. They are corrosive, but not really toxic in the long run. Dilute them with a lot of water and flush them down the drain.
- formic acid, acetic acid, propionic acid, butyric acid and many more unsaturated acids I also flush away with a lot of water.
- common water-soluble solvents like acetone, ether, ethanol, i-propanol, n-propanol, methanol I allow to evaporate in contact with air for some time (also if they are mixed with water) and then i flush them down the drain with a lot of water.
- non water-soluble solvents, like ligroin, hexane, heptane, octane I allow to evaporate in contact with air, outside. I sometimes burn them.
- I also allow chlorinated solvents (CH2Cl2, CHCl3, CHCl=CCl2, CCl2=CCl2, CCl4) to evaporate in contact with air, outside. I use these compounds only very sparingly. In the last year my total waste of these summed up is less than 100 ml. I try to avoid using these as much as possible. Many experiments also can be done quite well in hexane or low-boiling ligroin. If I really need something more inert, then I prefer using CH2Cl2, it is the least toxic and easiest to obtain chlorinated solvent.
- I do not do any experiments with organic mercury compounds, or any other organic metal compounds (other than simple salts like acetates, formiates and so on).
- Sugars, plant-derived acids (e.g. malic acid, fumaric acid, malonic acid, citric acid, oxalic acid) and acids like lactic acid, glycolic acid, also go down the drain with a lot of water.

Most troublesome to me are aromatic compounds. Benzoic acid and benzoates can go down the drain with a lot of water, but benzene, toluene and xylene certainly cannot. These, I collect and if there is not too much water involved, I pour them on a paper tissue and burn them outside (gives very sooty fire!!). Otherwise I store them in a glass bottle and bring this to a municipal waste processing facility, telling them that it is solvent waste from degreasing things.
I also keep phenol as organic waste. It dissolves in water, I also bring that to a waste processing facility and make up a story about cleaning/disinfecting things. I never had trouble bringing it away. Just assure you don't have much waste. A liter-bottle always will be accepted if you have the right story.
Metallic waste (e.g. heavy metals) I put in a separate container and bring that away and tell that it is photography (darkroom) waste. I label the bottle with something like "heavy metals in solution".

One particular type of waste, I process, before disposing of. That is hexavalent chromium waste, which I sometimes use for oxidation purposes. I always treat such waste with acid (if not already present) and sodium sulfite (or bisulfite), until the liquid is purely green with a bluish hue. In this way all hexavalent chromium is converted to trivalent chromium, which is only marginally toxic. A few grams of trivalent chromium can go down the drain with a lot of water. Larger amounts can be precipitated with ammonia and the filtered precipitate can be put in the normal household waste.

I work on a mini-scale in my experiments. I use test tubes whenever possible and work in ml-quantities. In that way I do not produce much waste. As you can see above, much waste can go down the drain. Many other (non home-chemistry) uses produce similar waste or even add chemicals deliberately to the waste stream (e.g. drain openers, based on H2SO4, but also many toilet cleaners, based on HCl, or formic acid).

unionised - 7-5-2018 at 02:26

Quote: Originally posted by Reboot

For me, there are some red-line issues on things you can dump down the drain. Mercury is one. Chlorinated solvents is another. The regulators (and the public) will not accept your 'acceptable level of ultimate dilution' argument as a good reason for not having taken care of your waste stream like a professional in the first place.

Well, the last time I checked (probably 10 years ago) the law was simple. Our lab's waste disposal permits forbade putting chlorinated solvents down the drain.
That sounds perfectly sensible.
Until you remember that there are chlorinated solvents in the incoming water.
So simply running the tap was breaking the law.

And that's why sensible governments actually set limits rather than saying "zero!".

VSEPR_VOID - 7-5-2018 at 09:25

Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid

Quote: Originally posted by Reboot

Please do NOT dump chlorinated solvents down the drain; they're a serious environmental problem. If you have a liter of chloroform, recover it. Save halogenated solvents, redistill and reuse.

Now that would be fun to have to explain to the local authorities, "why yes officer, I thought it wa better than burning my lab waste".

SWIM - 7-5-2018 at 10:07

Quote: Originally posted by aga

In any event, surely a Home Chemist would not produce a kilo of anything.

He don't know me very well, do he?

Heh Heh Heh...

CaptainMolo - 8-5-2018 at 20:29

I'll throw my two cents in, the local recycling center near my home accepts chemical waste at a very reasonable fee. Something like 10 bucks to drop off whatever you have, to my knowledge they will take whatever you have and figure out what to do with it for you. It might be worth looking into if there are similar facilities near your area.

User13579 - 8-5-2018 at 23:40

I think it's reasonable to consider what sort of chemicals non chemists are throwing into household waste routinely. There are paint strippers based on DCM, toluene, xylene, white spirit, paint itself, bleach and kitchen cleaners, methylated spirits, pesticides and insecticides etc. People just use these, put them in a bottle or a bag, then throw them in the household waste with no thought of seeking professional disposal. Is someone throwing away dirty paint thinner or creosote any better than someone throwing away the toluene that they used as a solvent? In reality, maybe your solvent is less contaminated than an artist who used heavy metal pigments and washes their brushes in xylene. At a pharmaceutical company I used to work at, they disposed of chloroform by leaving it overnight in a fume hood in an open beaker! It seems to me that some people are going to greater lengths than industry does. The best solution is not to produce much waste to start with, by working on a small scale, then if you have one litre of organic solvents similar to over the counter paint thinners then you can decide how best to deal with it. But as I say, most laymen would throw similar things in the bin without a second thought, while chemists are worrying about how xylene will contaminate the environment. What's more, the treatment at a waste processing facility is often to dispose of it by buring it in an incinerator. If you could recover and reuse your own solvents then obviously that would be better, but personally I wouldn't feel too bad about throwing toluene and methylated spirits in the bin so long as it wasn't contaminated with anything notably poisonous such as mercury. But even then, energy saving lightbulbs contain mercury and people throw them into the household waste too.

[Edited on 9-5-2018 by User13579]

[Edited on 9-5-2018 by User13579]

[Edited on 9-5-2018 by User13579]

CobaltChloride - 9-5-2018 at 00:01

Although that is true, people should start changing this behavior. Out of all people, chemists should be the ones to start this positive change because they are the ones which understand the environmental harm of these chemicals.

User13579 - 9-5-2018 at 00:52

That's true, but chemists also understand that they come from the environment in the first place.

I see your point, but sometimes it's difficult to find a waste processing facility that will accept a small amount of chloroform, for instance. And as I said, in the pharmaceutical industry I've seen litres evaporated overnight via the fume hood, and probably straight out into the environment.

[Edited on 9-5-2018 by User13579]

lab waste

fent101 - 9-5-2018 at 08:52

flinn scientific has a great catalog that covers the basics of storage and
waste I talked them in to sending me a catalog.
also scribd is a great source for books and documents this is on recommended document https://www.scribd.com/document/1727033/SAFE-LAB-School-Chem...
You get a free 30 day trial and can dl as much as you want. USE IT

There are more of us "armature chemists" than there are pro's. We can drown them in our urine. lol

zed - 10-5-2018 at 13:48

Ummm. Incineration.

That is how the U.S. Military disposes of nasty bits, like Sarin, etc....

And within limits, we might resort to the same means.

This recent video, explains it fairly precisely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLUGsn-NOis

But, of course, the original looks pretty good too. And, it includes subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaHEusBG20c

[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]

[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]

[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]

morganbw - 10-5-2018 at 14:06

Quote: Originally posted by zed

Ummm. Incineration.

That is how the U.S. Military disposes of nasty bits, like Sarin, etc....

And within limits, we might resort to the same means.

This recent video, explains it fairly precisely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLUGsn-NOis

But, of course, the original looks pretty good too. And, it includes subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaHEusBG20c

[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]

[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]

[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]

Thanks for the links. The song made me smile.