Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Powdered sodium hypochlorite - NaOCl or "Soda Bleach" anyone heard of this?

Powdered sodium hypochlorite - NaOCl or "Soda Bleach" anyone heard of this?

RogueRose - 27-4-2018 at 19:04

So I came across something I've never seen and I didn't know it existed and I'm not sure what it is b/c the MSDS of the product shows something different than NaOCl.

https://www.soapgoods.com/buy-sodium-hypochlorite-wholesale....

The price looks GREAT at $2.32 for 4lbs, if it is pure NaOCl, or $23/50lbs

Ingredients
Sodium hypochlorite phosphate - CAS 11084-85-8 - amount 95%
Sodium Chloride - CAS 7647-14-5 - amount 5%

Here is a link to the product PDF
Attachment: Sodium-Hypochlorite.pdf (405kB)
This file has been downloaded 367 times

It looks like this might be a simple mix of TriSodium Phoshate and NaOCl, which would be disappointing to a degree, especially when looking at this page:
http://www.chemicalland21.com/industrialchem/inorganic/CHLOR...

The formula is: (Na3PO4·11H2O)4·NaOCl which shows 4 TSP molecules to 1 NaOCl. Oddly TSP has a dodecahydrate which is 12, not 11 (Undecahydrate) H2O molecules.
TSP anhydrous = 163.94g/mol
11mole H20 = 198g
12mole H20 = 216g
NaOCl anhyd = 74.4g/mol
TSP - undec = 362g/mol
TSP - dodec = 380g/mol
4 molecule TSP undec = 1448g
4 molecule TSP dodec = 1520g

So the TSP part of the molecule is 1485g (split diff between the two) and NaOCl is 74.4g = 1558.4g which comes out to 4.8% of the compound being NaOCl. Not quite what I was thinking of when I see it listed as powdered sodium hypochlorite. Actually, this powder is even less if you add in the 5% NaCl listed in the MSDS.

What I did notice though is that this might be a good source for TSP if you don't mind some NaCl contamination. As aga suggested in using TSP for drying ethanol (I'm getting around to it aga) then the NaCl shouldn't be an issue, and the drying potential of the dodecahydrate is the highest I've come across at the 216g/mole! Also pricing of TSP is about $4-6/lb to $15-20 for 5lbs, so this seems very reasonable.

I assume that the NaOCl could be decomposed by heating while also making anhydrous TSP. This would also generate some O2 in the process if that could be utilized.

Now IDK if I've analysed this correctly or made correct assumptions about the contents. I'd be much happier if this was pure NaOCl at high concentrations but sadly I think this is not.

Here is a pic of what it is supposed to look like.

violet sin - 27-4-2018 at 19:16

Wiki: "Anhydrous lithium hypochlorite is stable at room temperature; however, sodium hypochlorite has not be prepared drier than the pentahydrate (NaOCl·(H2O)5). This is unstable above 0 °C;"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypochlorite

RogueRose: "I'd be much happier if this was pure NaOCl at high concentrations but sadly I think this is not. "

^-- yep, I second that.--^ but it took me two min to search for the wiki quote on Google search I would be ecstatic if I could find hypochlorite at < 3$ for 4#'s of 100% ... Did look like a nice effort on your behalf looking into the subject though. Far better than my poorly organised response.

[Edited on 28-4-2018 by violet sin]

j_sum1 - 27-4-2018 at 19:25

There was a recent thread discussing sodium hypochlirite solid (in the last two weeks). The eventual consensus was that it is unstable to the degree that it was unlikely to be available in any degree of purity in otc products and even if it was it would end up being less convenient than regular bleach for the normal amateur chemist.

I'll see if I can dig up the thread.

Edit: a quick search did not pull it up. I'd persevere if I was on my laptop. I did find this:
www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Sodium_hypochlorite

[Edited on 28-4-2018 by j_sum1]

RogueRose - 27-4-2018 at 19:41

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

There was a recent thread discussing sodium hypochlirite solid (in the last two weeks). The eventual consensus was that it is unstable to the degree that it was unlikely to be available in any degree of purity in otc products and even if it was it would end up being less convenient than regular bleach for the normal amateur chemist.

I'll see if I can dig up the thread.

Edit: a quick search did not pull it up. I'd persevere if I was on my laptop. I did find this:
www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Sodium_hypochlorite

[Edited on 28-4-2018 by j_sum1]

I remember that thread though I think I only read the first few posts, dont' know if there were more afterwards. I remember that it is stable at low temps, so if it were to be produced near freezing or even 0F, and stored, I think it might be viable, but for normal use and storage, no bueno.

Mabus - 28-4-2018 at 03:29

I remember that image with the alleged solid sodium hypochlorite. A quick search gave me some supplier from India which apparently sells the stuff, but I couldn't find other information elsewhere. When I tried to look for powdered or solid sodium hypochlorite elsewhere, I never got an actual true compound. All the other "solid sodium hypochlorite" results were actually calcium hypochlorite or sodium chlorate, even though the title of the product included the name "sodium hypochlorite", you literally had to read the product specifications to get the real name of the product.
I visited the wiki photo link again recently, and the solid product is gone from their site, with all the other sodium hypochlorite products being liquid. The company also sells some odd forms of bleach, like "Sodium Hypochlorite for Nerve Agent Neutralization" (not sure how it would be different from the other types of bleach when it comes to nerve agent neutralization), so I'm not sure how accurate the names of their products are.
All things considered, I'm not sure how much "sodium" was in that "sodium hypochlorite powder", if any.

EDIT: Even worse, some sellers will say "sodium hypochlorite", but write the chemical formula NaClO2, which is actually SODIUM CHLORITE. And just below, in the same product, they actually say "Sodium chlorite", but write the formula Ca(OCl)2, which is CALCIUM hypochlorite. The CAS is also for calcium hypochlorite, even though it's written near the name "sodium chlorite", and the product composition says it's mostly sodium chlorite.
Oh and the product is classified as "chlorate" in the same page.
This is some Tommy Wiseau level of business.

[Edited on 28-4-2018 by Mabus]

symboom - 28-4-2018 at 09:34

Chlorinated trisodium phosphate

the material called chlorinated trisodium phosphate is used as a disinfectant and bleach, like sodium hypochlorite. It is prepared using NaOCl in place of some of the base to neutralize phosphoric acid.

Trisodium phosphate is produced by neutralization of phosphoric acid using sodium hydroxide. Carbonate can only produce disodium phosphate:

Na2CO3 + H3PO4 → Na2HPO4 + CO2 + H2O
Na2HPO4 + NaOH → Na3PO4 + H2O

Calcium phosphate hypochlorite is it possible
Calcoum hypochlorite and phosphoric acid

[Edited on 28-4-2018 by symboom]

woelen - 28-4-2018 at 10:46

The product is a double-salt of sodium phosphate and sodium hypochlorite (it's not a complex, the hypochlorite and phosphate really exist as separate entities). This is a stable solid form of hypochlorite, but the total amount of hypochlorite is quite limited. It is NaOCl.4[Na3PO4]. This is used in tablets for dishwashers, and in some other cleaners, where bleaching is not a real problem (not for fabric).
I personally do not find this a really interesting compound, because of the low content of active chlorine. A compound like Ca(OCl)2 is much more concentrated in hypochlorite.