Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Strange drawing request

Strange drawing request

NEMO-Chemistry - 7-2-2018 at 13:45

Hi
Ok I am aware this is a really strange sort of request, I have tried to do it myself, I cant work the software, i cant get it right!!!

Could someone do me a 3D drawing in vector format? I need the Oxycodone drug molecule drawn, not as the normal type of way but like the 3D ball and stick type drawing.

Dosnt matter what angle the final vector is at, the drawing is to form the base of a logo. The rest is not a problem but I have tried to get a vesctor in ball and stick mode and cant do it!!

i also found images but they are copy write, if you want credit for the logo, i dont have a problem with that. Its for a good cause I can promise that.

Oh yes the bit where I am told about drug companies getting upset etc, not my problem. Not my website, nothing to do with me or swim or anyone else.

Just I shot my mouth off about my skillz in Adobe, only to find they dont translate to drawing molecules. So while I will fess up I didnt do that part, i would like to finish what i said I could do.

thx chaps

Plunkett - 7-2-2018 at 14:04

I may be completely misunderstanding what you are asking for, but does this work? It is a file from Wikimedia Commons that I took into inkscape and did a bitmap trace with seventy five scans.

Attachment: Oxycodone_molecule_ball.svg (2.6MB)
This file has been downloaded 679 times

aga - 7-2-2018 at 14:06

Hmm.

Report or refer OP to chemsketch.

mmmm.

Maybe best to just tell OP to NOT promise something they cannot deliver.

... especially with opiods.

NEMO-Chemistry - 7-2-2018 at 14:57

Quote: Originally posted by aga

Hmm.

Report or refer OP to chemsketch.

mmmm.

Maybe best to just tell OP to NOT promise something they cannot deliver.

... especially with opiods.

LOL
Thanks aga, I finally got AI to open it. Now I did want a transparent image background

. But considering I got no where and you quickly delivered.......

I have tried chem sketch, isnt that pay for software though?

I think it might be the one I cant get running on windoes 10 with a AMD chip in the machine.

Anyway thank you alot!!

Yeah my mouth runaway, but its actually for a good cause. I will brush my AI ninja skillz up. i will engage brain and think of wikipedia etc!!

Anyway cheers, now I just got to do the pretty bit.

Inkscape, thats one I havnt heard of. We get a monthly Adobe plan from school. I got the student version that runs out in July.

On linux I use Gimp, But inkscape I havnt heard of, I will give it a spin.

[Edited on 7-2-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]

j_sum1 - 7-2-2018 at 15:06

Chemsketch is good. You do not need to pay for the basic installation.
Avogadro is also good. Not as powerful but it does a better job of showing double bonds.
or you could just use the wikipedia image.

NEMO-Chemistry - 7-2-2018 at 15:11

WOO how come you lot can get those from wiki?

WTF I am doing wrong or not doing? I will try and install chemsketch again, if anyone got it on windows 10, is there anything I need to do on the set up to get it to work on windows 10??

Bloody awful OS

aga - 7-2-2018 at 15:37

Hints and Tips:-

Drink Less booze than aga to Achieve everything you Desire.

Drink More if all you want is spontaneous combustion.

Most molecular structures are available via ChemSpider

Sulaiman - 7-2-2018 at 23:56

e.g. http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.4447649.html?ri...

click on the 3D and magnifier buttons below the model.
Click and drag the model in 3D.
Enter any other compound in the search bar .....

EDIT: WARNING ... you may spend too many hours looking at molecules

[Edited on 8-2-2018 by Sulaiman]

NEMO-Chemistry - 8-2-2018 at 00:21

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman

e.g. http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.4447649.html?ri...

click on the 3D and magnifier buttons below the model.
Click and drag the model in 3D.
Enter any other compound in the search bar .....

EDIT: WARNING ... you may spend too many hours looking at molecules

[Edited on 8-2-2018 by Sulaiman]

LOL it didnt help the J mol thing wasnt working in firefox. I have updated firefox and a couple plugins, so maybe it was that with wiki. i dont let firefox self update as it breaks alot of things!!

Chemsketch I have never had much luck with it. Chemspider I think must have used something like J mol? It works now but it wasnt working.

I also have a hatred for windows 10, i got used to 8.1, most said it was crap, but I got it going ok. I preferred win7, xp was a security nightmare but ok system, win7 was IMHO really good. 8.1 worked fine for me, it had some oddball bits but was ok.

Windows 10...... To me its like vista, spawn of the devil.

I prefer Linux but so much of what I use day to day is windows only, wine dosnt solve my problems.

But i do have a linux laptop, I like linux alot. I dont like the commercial almost shareware system creeping in however!

Sulaiman - 8-2-2018 at 01:19

After clicking on '3D', above the model you can choose Jmol or Jsmol,
depending on your computer, one ot the other or both or neither will work

P.S. most Wikipedia chemical articles have a link in the panels on the right.

[Edited on 8-2-2018 by Sulaiman]

P.P.S. Once displayed properly you can rotate the model in 3D by click-drag.

[Edited on 8-2-2018 by Sulaiman]

NEMO-Chemistry - 8-2-2018 at 10:45

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman

After clicking on '3D', above the model you can choose Jmol or Jsmol,
depending on your computer, one ot the other or both or neither will work

P.S. most Wikipedia chemical articles have a link in the panels on the right.

[Edited on 8-2-2018 by Sulaiman]

Thx
yes they show up now, not sure why or what setting was wrong... I started with win 10 beta ages ago, this is the last upgrade they did from the free exchange version. might be time to take it off

Rhodanide - 8-2-2018 at 11:03

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman

WARNING ... you may spend too many hours looking at molecules

[Edited on 8-2-2018 by Sulaiman]

I can confirm this as being a side-effect.

LearnedAmateur - 9-2-2018 at 05:22

I’ve got this app on my iPhone called WebMO. Great for drawing 3D models in a pinch and you can access the electrostatic potential patterns too, I’ll share both images (let me know if you need a different angle). Also, you can look up pretty much any molecule and then edit as you please, I’ve used it countless times. You can change the size of the atoms and the bonds, as well as the isosurface parameters, and the background colour too.

CD0C7C35-45A5-4F85-8075-6DC9D7A8BD72.png - 408kB

5A623EE8-EA42-40CB-A0CA-50D611E8283F.png - 1.7MB

[Edited on 9-2-2018 by LearnedAmateur]

j_sum1 - 9-2-2018 at 14:22

That looks awesome LA. I might have to try that.

NEMO-Chemistry - 9-2-2018 at 17:52

Yeah they look cool. I looked up morphine and codeine, seeing as codeine is made from Morphine, i figured they must have some the same bonds.

If i got right then they do infact share the same center bit, just different bits branching off. Now this opens up a whole other world!!

Makes OC easier if you can see the molecule, especially if you can see a molecule then one thats related. It makes thinking of groups much much easier.

The bloody zig zag lines got confusing, i much prefer to see all the bits rather than a cryptic hieroglyph

LearnedAmateur - 10-2-2018 at 10:00

The free version is somewhat limited (basically just small molecules) but you can still access most functions, I paid £5 for the premium but it really opens up what you can do.

And yes NEMO, codeine is just the 3-methyl ether of morphine, attached to the same oxygen atom as in oxycodone. It acts a prodrug to the latter where it is demethylated in the liver at about a 5-15% conversion rate. The bit I find interesting is that a lot of opioids actually have completely different structures, some are based on the morphinan core whereas others like methadone and fentanyl tend to branch off a single atom, which is diversity not commonly seen in other drug classes.

I find that one of the more useful aspects of the app is when figuring out where substituents will go around benzene atoms - sticking on a group or two and calculating the electron densities shows how they are altered from the base molecule. Here you can see the difference between aniline and salicylic acid:

CA71B250-20A0-4A42-AF14-04F1A7226293.png - 1.8MB

AF39BAE9-3CF6-423F-82C2-008A63295CB8.png - 1.7MB

NEMO-Chemistry - 10-2-2018 at 15:30

I didnt make the connection with Oxycodone!! I was aware its synthetic?? So didnt even look at the structure compared to morphine!

Can we find a plant based chemical that legal to discuss this? I am okay with talking about Morphine etc, but i would prefer if we can find a legal alternative!!! learning organic chemistry via drugs is kinda 'wrong' lol.

Problem is its actually a great example!

I will look the others you mention, from there I can then see how groups are moved around or taken off. Its way easier to understand in that context.

I got stick and balls on order since before christmas, they still not here from China!

I know nothing about analine, so its harder to relate. What about paracetamol and aspirin? I know you can snyth paracetamol from aspirin, but what about going the other way?

[Edited on 10-2-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]

LearnedAmateur - 11-2-2018 at 04:02

The ‘convential’ opioids (some like to refer to these as opiates as a loose definition) are based on naturally extracted morphine. Most of the common opioid painkillers are just small tweaks to the morphine molecule, but oxycodone is a bit further away, having a ketone, saturated alkene, methyl ether (same as in codeine) and an additional hydroxy group.

Actually I found that studying the molecular structures of biochemical and pharmaceutical compounds (legal and illicit, the distinction can get blurred very quickly but the chemistry doesn’t) is what really got me interested in organic chemistry after the basic stuff in school. Never really viewed theoretical chemistry as a taboo in any way, even with stuff like explosives and highly poisonous chemicals - it’s when that information is applied in practice that the problems arise. It’s not like we’re showing people how to make them or anything, or even providing information that wouldn’t be found with a quick search on Google, I guess that’s the main reason why I feel quite relaxed discussing any chemistry in which I’m at least somewhat knowledgeable, even if I haven’t or have no intention of carrying it out in practice.

I suck at explaining how these sorts of things work or how to use it, it’s just one of those things you need to have a play around with to get familiar with, plus it’s not like you have to pay for anything if it’s useless from the start. I’ve been tempted to get some Molymod kits to be honest, but downloading an app that does the same thing and has a lot more functionality kinda replaced that. Still would be cool to have a few molecules sitting around the lab though.

Oh, I just grabbed the first two examples I thought of, where NH2 is an electron donating group and both OH and COOH are electron withdrawing. Charts are good for the basic rules but having the isosurface there really paints a better picture of what the electrons are doing. I don’t think you can readily synthesise one from the other, not in just a couple of steps anyway - paracetamol is usually made by the n-acetylisation of 4-aminophenol, whereas aspirin is made by o-acetylating salicylic acid, both with acetic anhydride.

NEMO-Chemistry - 11-2-2018 at 06:22

Quote: Originally posted by LearnedAmateur

The ‘convential’ opioids (some like to refer to these as opiates as a loose definition) are based on naturally extracted morphine. Most of the common opioid painkillers are just small tweaks to the morphine molecule, but oxycodone is a bit further away, having a ketone, saturated alkene, methyl ether (same as in codeine) and an additional hydroxy group.

Actually I found that studying the molecular structures of biochemical and pharmaceutical compounds (legal and illicit, the distinction can get blurred very quickly but the chemistry doesn’t) is what really got me interested in organic chemistry after the basic stuff in school. Never really viewed theoretical chemistry as a taboo in any way, even with stuff like explosives and highly poisonous chemicals - it’s when that information is applied in practice that the problems arise. It’s not like we’re showing people how to make them or anything, or even providing information that wouldn’t be found with a quick search on Google, I guess that’s the main reason why I feel quite relaxed discussing any chemistry in which I’m at least somewhat knowledgeable, even if I haven’t or have no intention of carrying it out in practice.

I suck at explaining how these sorts of things work or how to use it, it’s just one of those things you need to have a play around with to get familiar with, plus it’s not like you have to pay for anything if it’s useless from the start. I’ve been tempted to get some Molymod kits to be honest, but downloading an app that does the same thing and has a lot more functionality kinda replaced that. Still would be cool to have a few molecules sitting around the lab though.

Oh, I just grabbed the first two examples I thought of, where NH2 is an electron donating group and both OH and COOH are electron withdrawing. Charts are good for the basic rules but having the isosurface there really paints a better picture of what the electrons are doing. I don’t think you can readily synthesise one from the other, not in just a couple of steps anyway - paracetamol is usually made by the n-acetylisation of 4-aminophenol, whereas aspirin is made by o-acetylating salicylic acid, both with acetic anhydride.

OO
The temptation to look clever was great! Fact is unless i seen a Chemplayer video, i wouldnt know. They took aspirin and went all the way to paracetamol. Alot of steps I think, I dont remember much except i filed it under might be useful one day.

Not sure for what however!

LearnedAmateur - 11-2-2018 at 06:34

It would probably go something like: ester hydrolysis to get salicylic acid, decarboxylation to phenol, nitration to give O- and P-aminophenol, purification of the latter, reduction to give p-aminophenol then react with AA with the OH group protected (TMSCl, benzoate?) or for lower yields, in neutral/acidic medium. I guess a more readily accessible way for the last part would be the neutralisation with acetic acid then dehydration to the amide, then you shouldn’t have problems with the OH getting in the way.

[Edited on 11-2-2018 by LearnedAmateur]

j_sum1 - 11-2-2018 at 11:47

It was NileRed that did this. I think ultimately 7 or 8 steps and from memory similar to what you have described, LA. Yield was down below 1% for the whole process -- some steps were very low yield.

NEMO-Chemistry - 11-2-2018 at 14:31

Sorry Nile!

I dont remember much about it, at the time I was just watching OChem videos to try and get a handle on it. Part of the problem is I am lazy by nature, and O chem is really not for the lazy!

But its some of the most interesting chemistry (after bio chem obviously

)

aga - 11-2-2018 at 14:59

The Lazy tend to make a lot of Sound and never any Action.

The old addage "empty vessels make the most sound" has a poignant meaning with amateur chemists.

NEMO-Chemistry - 12-2-2018 at 00:59

So what are the 'clouds' showing in the drawing? Is this the most active regions electron wise or bonds flexing, or whatever you want to call it. AND can we [please get a roll eyes smiley, or better yet a rolls eyes grumpy?

j_sum1 - 12-2-2018 at 01:33

The "clouds" are what clouds always are in chemistry - an approximation of electron density. I say approximation because in theory the elextrons extend to infinity inall directions. The surface shaded represents a zone with a certain probability of containing the electrons and represents a reasonable im age of thed shape of the molecule at least inasmuch as molecules interact with one another.

The coloured diagram gives more information. The colours indicate electrostatic potential - that is, the force that a point charge would experience if it was situated in that position. As such it indicates positively and negatively charged regions in the molecule which is useful for figuring out reaction mechanisms as well as intermolecular forces.

LearnedAmateur - 12-2-2018 at 02:55

Yeah that’s pretty much it, on a simple molecule (so not a benzene core with multiple subbstituents) you can interpret the electron density quite clearly. Atoms with lone pairs, so nitrogen and oxygen at the least, are red and lots of hydrogen atoms will show blue. The isosurface is basically just a graph in 3D space, the best simple description really.

7126E86B-9F56-4767-A440-186405A246E2.jpeg - 58kB

354E8723-CD74-4A0C-AAD8-131958A47F11.jpeg - 94kB

NEMO-Chemistry - 13-2-2018 at 11:27

Chaps that this some the most useful information ever! Really fascinating, i expect it plays a bigger role than am i really aware of. But it certainly makes other organic questions drop into place.

Things like, why would a reaction favor X path and Not Y path. When you see it with clouds, you kind of see why that bit is the bit that sticks on.

WangleSpong5000 - 16-2-2018 at 18:23

Opioid chemistry is rather interesting. I am somewhat less familiar with the neurobiological aspects of the drugs as I am with dopaminegic substances/pathways/neurophysiological actions etc. but it's cool nonetheless. The orientation of the molecule really needs a rotating 3D model to do it justice i think...

I've always really like the fact that codeine, and diacetylmorphine are effectively in active in themselves as they are both metabolised to morphine which acts on the opioid receptors directly. Other groups of opioids have similar groupings among themselves... I believe codeine is to morphine what dihydrocodeine is to hydromorphone (don't quote me on that...)

NEMO-Chemistry - 16-2-2018 at 20:10

Quote: Originally posted by WangleSpong5000

Opioid chemistry is rather interesting. I am somewhat less familiar with the neurobiological aspects of the drugs as I am with dopaminegic substances/pathways/neurophysiological actions etc. but it's cool nonetheless. The orientation of the molecule really needs a rotating 3D model to do it justice i think...

I've always really like the fact that codeine, and diacetylmorphine are effectively in active in themselves as they are both metabolised to morphine which acts on the opioid receptors directly. Other groups of opioids have similar groupings among themselves... I believe codeine is to morphine what dihydrocodeine is to hydromorphone (don't quote me on that...)

So this then begs the question.....What about methodone? Or however its spelt, if its used for getting people off Morphine, then it has to be both similar (so it takes some the withdrawal off) and different.

Otherwise little point taking it (apart from purity). Yes its a real shame we are talking about drugs, but honestly its easy to relate to and it gives alot of information.

Its also got many derivatives, so I am guessing its a great way to learn different mechanisms from one start point. Bloody shame its illegal to mess with chemically speaking.

When I wasnt so well, I had at various times the following....

Tramadol
Which I dont actually know anything at all about, it was only two weeks I had it for. I dont think its opium based, buts its horrible to take.

Paracetamol with codeine in
. cant remember the name of this. I had it right at the start of when i first started getting pain, crap for pain... No better than paracetamol which is actually a pretty good painkiller.

Then it all gets a bit odd upto my operation, but Diamorphine, morphine, codeine, oxycontin and one i really cant remember well, it begins with a P I think and was used just after the operation.

Most were opiates, most were done and dusted in a 4-5 month period. All were different in many ways, so you have one main plant...

The Poppy, not sure what the resin actually contains (apart from the obvious), from that different reactions give you a different molecule. But all have a similar bit, all I presume have different reasons for existing.

Really interesting and extremely good for explaining OC. Plant alkaloids are absolutely fascinating, the little caterpillar that eats rhubarb leaves, so it them becomes red banded and toxic for predators. I dont know the Moth its from, but I am aware it can also feed on nettle, but dosnt then get the red banding.

The ones I really would like to study, are the natural root bearing herbicide ones. R.ponticum is such a menace here, they pay you alot of money to remove it from your land.

We dont have much on ours, a small patch is left now. We have been ripping it up since we got here! But one thing that fascinates me is the herbicide it produces in the roots.

You find other plants dont grow well near it, or very well for a year or two after its been removed. Then you get laurel, thats also similar action wise.

We had a patch of R.ponticum near the laurel trees, both tend to not do well near each other. My interest is to find a tree huggers weed killer!

Weed killer are getting pretty restricted, you need a license to buy it £350 (training course), then if you want to use them in a back pack thats another £500 on top!

I prefer to find natural solutions to natural problems, i am not so much an environmental type of guy, its just not logical to my thinking, to use chemicals on soil to kill plants.

Makes more sense to use something from the environment to take care of it.... Alot like Bio control methods for pests, except we often really fuck that up!

Any other legal drugs or chemicals, that have many derivatives but come from the same start point?

I know some anti depressants are based on plant extracts. What is it in Hops that makes you sleep? I know it used to be a problem for oaste house sweepers to keep awake during work.

I have also used dried Hops in a pillow to help me sleep.

Sorry gone off a tangent!

Slightly back on target....

Anyone got any idea why the poppy produces morphine? What specifically does the plant produce it for? I have always assumed a predator or maybe a way to aid seed dispersal.

But I dont actually know WHY, the plant makes it.

The other thing is pine resin, having loads of different spruces and pines around here, means I have tried alot of the resins on bacterial cultures.

Most are excellent antimicrobials , but then again thats what the tree uses it for. Not all pines kill the same bacteria, this is also something I find fascinating.

Sorry if the drug discussion is a bit disturbing, but honestly from a noobs view point, its a great way to learn about reaction mechanisms.

[Edited on 17-2-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]

WangleSpong5000 - 17-2-2018 at 02:07

Never apologise for your thirst for knowledge. No subject is off lifts and intelligent conversation is a rare commodity these days. The fact that you're a young bloke is doubly impressive. Drugs can teach us a lot about the brain and if I'm honest, give us an insight into the human condition. You are comple biological machine whose mind is sometimes subject to it's physical natures... but you also shape the physical functioning of said machine. Are we the masters or the slaves? Or both... or neither....

Drugs have taught us a great deal about the cogs in the machine so to speak...

Paracetamol (an extremely dangerous substance) is often combined with codeine in OTC (not in OZ... law changed 2 weeks back) preparations or the other alternative is a double strength codeine tablet on prescription only. I was addicted to codeine for years as I have had counless dental problems (all porcelain now lol)... I would eat a packet a day of 40 15mg codeine pills. That's 20grams of paracetamol a day. You will die of liver failure within a week at these doses. Easily rectified with a cold water extraction... para is easy to remove.

Diamorphine is Herion. Diacetylmorphine is its full name (not IUPAC obviously) morphine treated with acetic anhydride yields heroin. I believe it crosses the blood brain barrier much quicker due to the acetyl groups hence it reaches the brain quicker and gets metabolised to morphine within the brain where it acts as a major antagonist of the main opioid receptors. I think there are 3 main ones and 14 odd known ones.

All these dugs are Opiates (not Opioids) as the are all derived from the poppy. Oxicodone is a semi synthetic powerful opioid receptor agonist. I believe they use the morphinon shape to build upon with semi synths... there are loads of esters of morphine as you could imagine.

The Pdrug you took was likely pethedine. Very similar to morphine but without the contipation. This is why it's the hospital go to drug. It has a small increase in seizure risks.... trade off I guess.

I would conjecture that the poppy make what it makes as it was highly advantageous to those that did. Perhaps a mutation that ended up being highly advantageous and eveloution (for everything) did the rest.

I've got waaaaaaaaay more to add so bear with me. Sorry my knowledge of opiates is pretty average to be honest. I know phenethlamines a lot better....

NEMO-Chemistry - 17-2-2018 at 03:41

I didnt think of plain old selection! Because some poppies dont produce any/hardly any, my assumption was the heroin one has always been potent.

But I guess not, I couldnt come up with a natural reason a plant would make it. Pethedine is correct, I dont remember that much around that time.

The other one that springs to mind is the anti shit yourself pill, Immoden or whatever its called. That also uses small amounts of opiates to stamp the brakes on, so to speak.

Paracetamol is used alot now in hospitals for pain control, they use the IV version. Depending who you ask, you get reasons from Morphine is hard to get, to its a safer and better pain killer.

I knew it was hepa toxic, most people assume its harmless because its OTC. Aspirin works really well with me, but stomach problems mean I cant use it. Which family is Laudnum (i am positive thats spelled wrong!) from?

I have a very old bottle of it in a doctors bag. I have no idea how old it is (bottle is empty), but many the things in the bag are pretty strange. It includes copper sulphate! Not sure why a doctor would had used that.

I also have a bottle from around the 1930's of Morphine and Kaolin, apparently for stomach upsets! Toothache is one the worse pains ever, closely followed by ear ache. I regularly get ear ache from my mum, drives me insane

aga - 17-2-2018 at 09:42

Laudanum, aka 'tincture of opium' says wiki.

I recall that lettuce can produce something like this.

aha. found it. Search wiki for 'Lactucarium'

NEMO-Chemistry - 17-2-2018 at 10:36

Well thats a bit of a head scratch-er! Wonder how catnip interacts with it (chemically). Astounding what the plant world has within.

aga - 17-2-2018 at 10:49

Probably gets the cat off it's nips

NEMO-Chemistry - 17-2-2018 at 21:18

Quote: Originally posted by aga

Probably gets the cat off it's nips

LOL

Ok i better explain one, i guess not everyone is going to read the whole wiki thing.

Apparently catnip and another plant enhance the effects the lettuce that aga mentioned. I looked at the molecules, but cant see how they interact, but interact they do.

BTW @google kewls

The lettuce stuff is shit for what your searching for, its great for learning OC, no so great for what your after.

Actually catnip is another plant, what is it about the plant that sends cats into one?

LearnedAmateur - 18-2-2018 at 08:03

That would be the nepetalactones that the catnip produces, so called ‘cat attractants’ and don’t have any effect on humans since they bind to special olfactory receptors (good luck finding an evolutionary explanation, something to do with pheromones?). It would be hard to say how it makes a cat feel past euphoric and relaxed, or even stimulated, there are a wide variety of effects one may observe - I’ve personally seen some cats become heavily sedated and dribbly whereas others become extremely excited, almost manic.

There are plenty of organic molecules that act on our bodies in ways we don’t know for certain, even the UK’s most beloved OTC painkiller paracetamol, so I have no doubts it could potentially have some modulatory effect. If it does exhibit some interactions in the human body, it wouldn’t be in the same way as with cats; undoubtedly, some stupid kids have probably smoked some thinking it would be like cannabis, but if it did get people high then it wouldn’t be so freely available - I could imagine that the experience would, on the whole, be quite unpleasant.

[Edited on 18-2-2018 by LearnedAmateur]