Sciencemadness Discussion Board

useful compounds

Brij-09 - 30-12-2017 at 04:14

Hi!

I've an equivalent of MSc in chemistry and recently was inspired by this site to make some synthesis from OTC drugs and substances I have in a lab but definitely will never use (Ph-COOH and so one). I looked through the forum and also found some interesting experiments I'd like to repeat (for example, terephtalic acid nitration and subsequent -NO2 to -NH2 reduction).

But.

Of course, chemistry itself is very fascinating and gives you a sort of feeling you've a power over compounds you work with. Nevertheless, being kept in test-tubes they do nothing. How about some kind of practically oriented work? For example, aromatic amines through diazo-salts can lead you to acid-base indicator-like compounds, and their colours in different media can be easily investigated.

Another very promising (but also difficult) work is to test some compouns on invertebrates (cockroaches, pond snails ets) or even plants in oder to find if they have any biological activity (for example, enhancing of growing, analgesic properties, kill microorganisms)

So, guys, what do you think about it?

P.S. Sorry for mistakes, English is not my native language.

mackolol - 30-12-2017 at 13:50

You can try benzocaine synthesis as it is easily made anaesthetic.

aga - 30-12-2017 at 13:56

Welcome to ScienceMadness !

Brij-09 - 30-12-2017 at 19:33

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  
You can try benzocaine synthesis as it is easily made anaesthetic.


I'm talking about new prevoiusly unknown compounds.

NEMO-Chemistry - 30-12-2017 at 20:29

Quote: Originally posted by Brij-09  
Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  
You can try benzocaine synthesis as it is easily made anaesthetic.


I'm talking about new prevoiusly unknown compounds.

Dont know if it counts but, i do plant extractions and yeast type stuff. I like Biochem so I often look to see if different plant extracts kill microbes.

Plant hormones and growing plants from cells is my most recent interest. I havnt got very far with it yet though.

I would be interested in looking at biodegradable plastics made from waste material, like chitin from shrimp processing etc.

Natural plant dyes is another area i am interested in, especially as I live in Scotland where we have alot of Lichins that are used for traditional dyes (like Harris Tweed from the Isle of Harris).

Talking of Dyes, we have some kind of pine tree that grows around here, the cones fall when green are huge! The seed inside has an area that you can extract a red kind of dye from.

Whats interesting about it is the fact sodium hydroxide dosnt change its red colour, i make soap and most natural reds change colour when mixed with lye. This one dosnt

The Volatile Chemist - 31-12-2017 at 15:39

I think unknown dye derivatives would be particularly cool, though obviously a very large number have been characterized in times past. See one of the two good dye chemistry books in the Sciencemadness library for some starting points, and perhaps use a derivative of a starting material for a preparation. I'm personally looking into some nitrated dye possibilities, but have barely started that investigation-of-sorts.

Brij-09 - 31-12-2017 at 20:04

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
I think unknown dye derivatives would be particularly cool, though obviously a very large number have been characterized in times past.


I agree, but nevertheless we, chemists, work with a minority of possible indicators due, I don't know, tradition or price, availability. If you know, changing a substitution will also change colour, pH transition, may cause appearance of fluorescence and so on.

Assured Fish - 31-12-2017 at 21:57

@Brij-09, sounds to me like you wanna be spoon fed.
Generally speaking if you are unable to come up with your own compounds then you're clearly too uneducated to pull off the synthesis of such a compound.

You come here asking for so much from us and yet offer so little.

If you wanna invent a compound then go and find a series of compounds and study their chemistry.
When you have sufficient knowledge about these chemicals, you should have enough knowledge about them to prepare an analog.

You have a masters degree ffs, use it.

If you had come here asking for some ideas for amateur chemistry without the snarky "give me ideas for previously unknown compounds" bullshit then beyond giving you the UTFSE, i would have been a lot kinder to you.

Also why would you never use benzoic acid, its a rather convenient semi-OTC starting point for the preparation of benzene.

Brij-09 - 1-1-2018 at 03:17

2Assured Fish

I'm afraid I don't know many expressions you've just used, but I hope I got their tone, so I will answer.

First of all, if this community isn't for ideas sharing, what it is all about?
Secondly, may be because of my bad English you mixed up my advice with a demand for new sustances I never made. My goal was to let you pay attention to the fact that new compound in a bottle is art, but not always science.

What personally I do here is searching for an ordinary substance to start with and ways to functionalize it without expensive reagents.

And finally about benzoic acid. I meant that I would not use it in my work, so I can use it for amateur experimentation.

j_sum1 - 1-1-2018 at 14:19

I have to concur with AssuredFish here.

I am always a bit perplexed when someone expresses such bold aspirations with no clear objective. It is like saying, "I want to mix some stuff together to make something biologically active and useful that has never been made before. Tell me what reagents I should use."

I know that many scientific discoveries have been made through less than systematic processes but you should at least have a start point in mind. Either some reagents you already have access to or a specific procedure to modify or an idea to investigate. Asking others to generate your investigation question is just lazy - as well as impractical. Make a start and ask a specific question and you will get a much better reception.

Furthermore it bugs me that you have such loose objectives but are wanting to test your chems on live subjects. This seems irresponsible as well as unethical.

NEMO-Chemistry - 1-1-2018 at 14:52

Sorry guys but i disagree, i didnt read it the way you two guys did.


I read it like there is a guy who wants to work with others and share ideas etc. I will read it again in case I am wrong, i might be as both AF and JS1 are good people who help alot. So their tone surprised me, it could be a case of me not knowing enough chemistry, so i havnt really picked up on what the OP is after.

It is rare however for both AF and JS1 to respond like that without reason, some others i sort of expect it....

EDIT
OP i do share JS1 concerns of using live subjects for testing, especially early on in research. Bacteria etc i dont have a problem with, but unless you have a really good reason then why use live subjects to start with?

If you want to work with insecticides, then that should have been the goal from the start, not many here are the kill without reason types.

But apart from that I still dont see the spoon feeding thing etc, so maybe its because you got a Masters and I dont. therefore I am not seeing what the other two are.

Hmmm
Sorry count me out :(, while i dont get what the other objections are about, i do respect both AF and JS1 enough to know when not to get involved....Still a bit baffled though

[Edited on 1-1-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]

Bert - 1-1-2018 at 15:00

What does "an equivalent of MSc in chemistry" constitute?

Where/how did you get your education?

Brij-09 - 1-1-2018 at 15:52

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
I have to concur with AssuredFish here.

I am always a bit perplexed when someone expresses such bold aspirations with no clear objective. It is like saying, "I want to mix some stuff together to make something biologically active and useful that has never been made before. Tell me what reagents I should use."


Well, I answered to practically the same claim from Assured Fish. I don't like when I am prescribed words I never wrote.

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  

Furthermore it bugs me that you have such loose objectives but are wanting to test your chems on live subjects. This seems irresponsible as well as unethical.


I'm afraid you cannot imagine what is going on in pharma. This is called screening.

Brij-09 - 1-1-2018 at 15:55

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
What does "an equivalent of MSc in chemistry" constitute?


5 years of chemical faculty.
Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Where/how did you get your education?


Belarus. Entered a university and then graduated from. :)

Assured Fish - 1-1-2018 at 16:36

I feel like the issue may possibly be poor use of English, its just im still not entirely clear on what the main goal of this thread is. Perhaps the OP could explain in more detail.

Its just if you are asking for theoretical analogs from us then i feel like that would be asking for far more work from us than Brij-09 is willing to put in on his end, this to me would be by definition spoon feeding.

If you had come here with a basic chemical backbone or structure and asked, "what would happen if i made this change or do this to it" Then i would have no quorums.

Spoon feeding aside, organic chemistry (Which i presume to be the subject of interest) is an enormous subject. There are millions of chemical formulas which we could theorize that have never before be observed, but we cannot just draw up and list all of these, we need a direction.

j_sum1 - 1-1-2018 at 16:37

Quote: Originally posted by Brij-09  
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
I have to concur with AssuredFish here.

I am always a bit perplexed when someone expresses such bold aspirations with no clear objective. It is like saying, "I want to mix some stuff together to make something biologically active and useful that has never been made before. Tell me what reagents I should use."


Well, I answered to practically the same claim from Assured Fish. I don't like when I am prescribed words I never wrote.

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  

Furthermore it bugs me that you have such loose objectives but are wanting to test your chems on live subjects. This seems irresponsible as well as unethical.


I'm afraid you cannot imagine what is going on in pharma. This is called screening.


Researchers in the pharmaceutical industry have an end goal in mind. They either have a compound or set of compounds that they wish to investigate or they have a biochemical system in mind and are testing a range of compounds on it. You have neither.

I am not putting words in your mouth. You have said that you want to do biological testing. You have no starting compounds (although you have excluded benzoic acid for some reason). And you have not clearly stated what effects you are looking for. In that context you are fishing for help and advice. I don't think anyone here can provide help for a question that vague.

This is not about anyone here being snarky or rude. This is about you being more specific and focussed in the early stages of your investigation. An investigation where, I might add, you have explicitly stated that you wish to break new ground by synthesising something that has not been done before. You need to do some more reading.

Texium - 1-1-2018 at 19:59

Regardless of the language barrier, it is clear from your post, Brij-09, that you lack an understanding of what you are asking about. I am skeptical of your claim that you have the "equivalent of MSc," because if you did, that would mean you've had some exposure to working in a research lab. I don't know how it works in Belarus, but in the US an MSc means that you have done some original research and written a thesis over it. If you had gone through that, you would know that the process of coming up with an original idea to research is not as simple as picking out some compound that isn't characterized in the literature (which in itself is harder to do nowadays than you'd think), making it, and sticking it on some test subjects. Therefore I think your claim that you are equivalent to an MSc in chemistry is presumptuous, and you don't truly understand what you're asking.

On the other hand, it seems like you're determined and your heart is in the right place. You just need to slow down a bit and narrow your scope. The first step to learning something is admitting you don't already know it. I think if you take on some more practical and achievable goals, and explore some known chemistry, you'll be able to learn quite a lot.

Bert - 2-1-2018 at 13:10


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