Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Sources of chemicals ?

Polymer_endeavors - 14-12-2017 at 10:22

Been experiencing some kickback from certain haughty chemical suppliers when investigating me just to establish an acct.

For one, they scope your address out and if it's a mailbox in a private center that's a big no-no. Well, I am a registered business with a tax i.d.

I'm not ordering explosives or illegal drug precursors, I'm order components of epoxy and silicones, like Tin II Octoate and Glycidyl methacrylate, N-butyl acrylate,

A particular Japan based firm with US presence has great pricing right now, but STASI type investigation ladies who constantly call and dig deeper and deeper till you just flatly have your referrals glowingly recite to them BOILERPLATE:"Yes, <name> performs trade secret polymer research, but due to the possibility of corporate espionage, I am not at liberty to discuss any other information. If you would send me copies of your photo ID we can have our security team process it and get back to you".

Any suggestions on where I should be ordering from compounds listed appreciated.

Tired of the intensive paranoidal scrutiny.

Melgar - 15-12-2017 at 05:58

Try filling out this form here:

https://www.chemsavers.com/request-quote

The company listed is basically a middleman that provides access to a huge range of specialty chemicals, without the typical paranoia of chemical companies. They're the only company in the US that I'm aware of that will ship TMSCI to residential addresses, for instance.

Of the chemicals you listed, they carry n-butyl acrylate already, for like $60 for 2.5 liters. I image that's a pretty good price?

https://www.chemsavers.com/b/n-butyl-acrylate-98-stabilized-...

[Edited on 12/15/17 by Melgar]

Reboot - 16-12-2017 at 17:31

If you don't act like a professional, they won't treat you like one. I would laugh at you and hang up if you pulled that 'send me your ID so security can clear you if you want to know' nonsense.

Nothing kills people's curiosity like somebody who actually wants to tell them all about the details of their niche technical work. If you aren't truly worried about your work being stolen, gleefully bury them in all the geeky details. Show them so much excitement about having somebody on the line who WANTS to know what you're up to that they flee in terror. :-) If you do think there's some IP to protect, just feed them an inaccurate variation of your work.

They aren't going to care that you're legally a business if you're shipping to a residential area. The simplest sniff test of legitimacy is simply whether somebody is serious enough about it to spend a few hundred dollars a month on a little office space somewhere. It isn't personal; it's just hard to make a living on selling tiny amounts of reagents to people who are more likely to cause you trouble (with law enforcement, etc.)

Part of the problem is that you're pretending to be one thing (a normal business) when you look like another thing (an eccentric screwing around in his home.) That raises red flags. If you aren't being entirely straight with them on this issue, why should they trust you generally?

If an office/commercial address isn't an option, try telling them you're a student working on a thesis project instead of posing as a full-fledged business. That tends to defuse paranoia.

Melgar - 17-12-2017 at 04:24

When I was a student working on a thesis, I opened a Sigma Aldrich account with the address of the lab I was working in as the mailing address. It wasn't even a chem lab either, it was a computer lab. There were chemical engineering labs on the same floor as my lab though.

Katie - 26-4-2020 at 21:20

Quote: Originally posted by Melgar  
Try filling out this form here:

https://www.chemsavers.com/request-quote

The company listed is basically a middleman that provides access to a huge range of specialty chemicals, without the typical paranoia of chemical companies. They're the only company in the US that I'm aware of that will ship TMSCI to residential addresses, for instance.

Of the chemicals you listed, they carry n-butyl acrylate already, for like $60 for 2.5 liters. I image that's a pretty good price?

https://www.chemsavers.com/b/n-butyl-acrylate-98-stabilized-...

[Edited on 12/15/17 by Melgar]


Chemsavers has a good selection and will ship to a residential address, but you have to pay for shipping and hazmat twice (supplier to chemsavers, then chemsavers to you) unless you order their brand chemicals, of which there is a much smaller selection. Commercial addresses are cheaper to ship to. You also have to fill out and submit an intended use form, which may be rejected. My first order was cancelled because my form was rejected after I simply put “synthesis and research” as my intended use and it was for chemicals with virtually no possible illegal use. In addition, controlled substances, and certain drug and explosive precursors will only ship to a business that has a legitimate need for them.

I placed a ~$100 order and got an email saying shipping was going to be over $400 to residential and $190 to a commercial address.

That said, it’s one of the only options for uncommon chemicals for the amateur chemist without a commercial address!

Katie - 26-4-2020 at 21:48

Also, when your first and only post is about chemical sources, most people are going to ignore you. Sources are gold for amateur chemists as we are already upset that terrorists, drug dealers, and stupid people in general have made it so difficult to buy chemicals. All I’ll say is that it’s really not that hard to find good sources, but you will probably not find a single supplier that will have/sell you everything you want at an affordable price. Virtually no manufacturers will ship to a residential address and most require you to have an account, and they will investigate and make sure your business has legitimate uses for chemicals.

My advice is to spend 1-4 weeks (depending on your experience in chem labs) reading all you can about the syntheses you want to carry out, with a particular emphasis on safety. Then, make a list of the hardware and chemicals you need and search around for them. There is a lot of info here on how to DIY various equipment that works just as good as the real thing.

And make sure you know how to safely store chemicals! Storing the wrong things together can result in toxic fumes, fire, or explosion.

draculic acid69 - 27-4-2020 at 06:40

Alibaba.those Chinese companies actually want your business and don't give a shit about selling to you without background information.

monolithic - 27-4-2020 at 08:18

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  
Alibaba.those Chinese companies actually want your business and don't give a shit about selling to you without background information.


The only annoying part is finding a supplier that deals in small scales and not metric tons of reagents. Also they don't give a shit about customs declarations or HAZMAT shipping regulations which can be good (saves money) or bad (poorly packaged gallium breaking open on an aluminum bodied cargo aircraft.)

Chemsavers

MadHatter - 27-4-2020 at 08:37

They never asked me to fill out an "intent" form or
any other form for that matter. I've ordered sodium
azide and hydrazine sulphate from them without
questions. Maybe they've changed their requirements
due to liability. Of course there will always be
compounds that raise red flags.

Dr.Bob - 27-4-2020 at 17:13

Best solution I know is to find a small, established, business that does some chemistry work and try to work through them. It used to be that companies would look you up in a physical book of legitiamate companies (like Dun and Bradstreet, etc) but now most companies look in a database like Nexis to see if you are a real, registered company (eg, an LLC, corp, S Corp, etc) that exists in the legal system via a state registry of businesses. But if you find a small company that has existed for a while, they will be in the databases as legit, and they will be able to order most things. I know small companies that can buy nearly any chemical so if I ever needed something obscure, that would be my source. People in universities are also great. I would not even both trying Aldrich or such as an individual or even a small company, unless I was doing a lot of business. You might also be able to find a small distributor (like chemsaver) that is local. There are local chemical distributors in almost every town that sell solvents, acids, water treatment chemicals, etc, and many are willing to help or at least used to be. A friend buys his acetone, pipettes, and other supplies via a local distributor like that.