Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Safe Disposal of Sodium Chlorite

Dora - 26-8-2017 at 15:55

HI:
My name is Dora and I am new to this forum.
I am completely ignorant of chemistry. I only handle things that are safe for the general public.

I bought sodium chlorite because I needed it to heal my fibromyalgia and other issues by making it into MMS (Master Mineral Solution).

I had some sodium chlorite powder left over from a long time ago. I tried to make the powder form into 28% sodium chlorite solution by mixing it into the required amount of warm water. But it wouldn't dissolve properly. It would revert back into a clear crystal form.

So I got angry and made hot water and poured a lot more into it, and it became a nice clear solution. I didn't know what the percentage it is now; and I don't care.

At this point, I just want to throw it out, but need to know how to neutralize it before I do that. I have some citric acid, but am not sure if I should try using that because I don't know the chemical outcome of it should I empty it all down the drain.

I read somewhere that it could form some sort of gas in the sewer when it mixes with the sewer contents and explode when it reaches a manhole cover and mixes with more oxygen.

I am totally confused about the whole process: do I need to neutralize it with citric acid and if so how much citric acid to I need to use with the amount of Sodium chlorite solution.
Or do I just need to mix it with lots of water; and how much is that lots of water.

Please help as I have a Pyrex measuring cup sitting on my counter full of diluted sodium chlorite and covered with a hand towel.

I read a hazardous waste disposal instruction and couldn't understand much of it. It was a long instruction paper.

All I needed to know is how to dilute it so it is safe to dump it somewhere it won't harm the environment.

Thank You for any help you can give me.

XeonTheMGPony - 26-8-2017 at 16:27

Hope fully you discovered how that MMS is a total worthless scam!

As for disposal just mix with allot of water and use it to wash the drive way or tub or laundry.

Tin man - 26-8-2017 at 16:50

Just dilute with water and dump it in your toilet.
Also, if you are into alternative medicine, I would suggest looking into herbal remedies for chronic muscular pain. They will be more effective then mms and they won't produce the same free radical damage that mms does. Ibuprofen will work as Well.

Cryolite. - 26-8-2017 at 17:15

Sodium chlorite is used at the water treatment plant to kill any bacteria that are in the water. It is treated with acid to form chlorine dioxide, and this is bubbled through the water. (Chlorine can be used for the same purpose, but it has a lower solubility in water and it oxidizes some organic molecules to potentially hazardous organochlorine compounds.) As such, simply pouring your dilute chlorite solution down the drain shouldn't cause too many problems, since it was going to be added in some form anyways.

AJKOER - 30-8-2017 at 09:17


Desalination 176 (2005) 267–271 "Chlorite removal with ferrous ions", by Sabrina Sorlini, link: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sabrina_Sorlini2/public...

"Abstract
Effective use of chlorine dioxide as an alternative disinfectant in water treatment may require removal of the byproduct chlorite ion (ClO−2). The goal of this research was to investigate the use of ferrous iron (Fe2+) for the chemical reduction of ClO−2 from drinking water in order to define the operating conditions, process efficiency with different pH conditions and organic carbon concentration and the potential formation of chlorate during this process. The main results show that the reaction between the ferrous ion and chlorite is very fast (5–15 s) over a range of pH 6.5–8.0; in this condition a ferrous ion dose of 3.31 mg Fe/mg ClO−2 completely reduced chlorite to chloride, producing minimal residual soluble iron. For pH higher than 8.0–8.5, chlorite removal is lower due to the natural transformation of the ferrou ions to ferric hydroxide. Within these pH values, chlorite can be removed completely with ferrous ion concentrations higher than the stoichiometric value. Moreover, the application of ferrous salts for chlorite removal during the coagulation process enhances the performance of the coagulation and flocculation treatment."

Based on the above, add iron filings, NaHCO3 and perhaps NaCl to an aqueous solution of NaClO2 and pump air into it.

No ClO2 formation, with final products forming mainly chlorides, NaCl, FeCl3, and insoluble Fe2O3.xH2O, FeCO3,..

One could try copper filings also, but soluble copper ions are problematic/poisonous for fish,...., and in higher doses lethal to humans as well.

[Edited on 30-8-2017 by AJKOER]

hissingnoise - 30-8-2017 at 11:22

Dora, cannabis is the only remedy found to be effective in treating fibromyalgia...

Morgan - 30-8-2017 at 12:46

Maybe some gain in eating certain foods and avoiding others...
https://www.prevention.com/health/health-concerns/diet-tips-...

[Edited on 30-8-2017 by Morgan]

j_sum1 - 30-8-2017 at 15:09

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Dora, cannabis is the only remedy found to be effective in treating fibromyalgia...


Not according to this
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD011694...
Quote:
We found no relevant study with herbal cannabis, plant-based cannabinoids or synthetic cannabinoids other than nabilone in fibromyalgia.
Authors' conclusions

We found no convincing, unbiased, high quality evidence suggesting that nabilone is of value in treating people with fibromyalgia. The tolerability of nabilone was low in people with fibromyalgia.

DraconicAcid - 30-8-2017 at 16:38

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Dora, cannabis is the only remedy found to be effective in treating fibromyalgia...


Not according to this
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD011694...
Quote:
We found no relevant study with herbal cannabis, plant-based cannabinoids or synthetic cannabinoids other than nabilone in fibromyalgia.
Authors' conclusions

We found no convincing, unbiased, high quality evidence suggesting that nabilone is of value in treating people with fibromyalgia. The tolerability of nabilone was low in people with fibromyalgia.


Even an ineffective treatment is better than MMS.

XeonTheMGPony - 30-8-2017 at 17:02

MMS isn't even a treatment it is the absolute quackery of the 18th century where they took arsenic as a cure for the cold! but at least they had an excuse back then!

It is a sick scam.

AJKOER - 30-8-2017 at 19:48

Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
MMS isn't even a treatment it is the absolute quackery of the 18th century where they took arsenic as a cure for the cold! but at least they had an excuse back then!

It is a sick scam.


Actually, certain metals have long been known for disinfecting properties. Copper vessels for the transport of drinking water (to keep the water clear), silver for treating burn victims during World War I,...

My favorite is zinc that per a study published in the Australian Journal of Medicine unmasking its anti-microbial properties. Basically, it does a bad job in replacing Mn in the mechanics of nutrient injestion. So microbes starve or become very weak so that even ones body defensives can kill them. Here is one link: https://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news66182.html .

[Edited on 31-8-2017 by AJKOER]

hissingnoise - 31-8-2017 at 05:26

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Dora, cannabis is the only remedy found to be effective in treating fibromyalgia...


Not according to this.

Jeeez! I specified cannabis, not a 'synthetic approximation' of a single cannabinoid!

(From Wikipaedia;

Nabilone is a synthetic cannabinoid with therapeutic use as an antiemetic and as an adjunct analgesic for neuropathic pain. It mimics tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the primary psychoactive compound found naturally occurring in Cannabis.)


XeonTheMGPony - 31-8-2017 at 07:33

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
MMS isn't even a treatment it is the absolute quackery of the 18th century where they took arsenic as a cure for the cold! but at least they had an excuse back then!

It is a sick scam.


Actually, certain metals have long been known for disinfecting properties. Copper vessels for the transport of drinking water (to keep the water clear), silver for treating burn victims during World War I,...

My favorite is zinc that per a study published in the Australian Journal of Medicine unmasking its anti-microbial properties. Basically, it does a bad job in replacing Mn in the mechanics of nutrient injestion. So microbes starve or become very weak so that even ones body defensives can kill them. Here is one link: https://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news66182.html .

[Edited on 31-8-2017 by AJKOER]


Wasted typing as I am referring to MMS you know the one where they convince people to drink bleach to magically cure cancer and every thing, in one sense it works providing you drink enough of it as you can't have cancer as a corps, but not much of a miracle or cure IMO.

Same thing with Arsenic, take enough of it and it will indeed be a cure all, but the cure is worse then the disease! They simple didn't know squat back then so at least had ignorance as an excuse, now days we're not so ignorant! Hell even in the 1800 we knew Arsenic was a bad idea in scientific/medical terms hence why I called it utter quackery!

I am very well aware of metals and their usages in health even mercury back in the old days was very useful and effective for Ulcers, and to limited effect on syphilis as mercuric chloride, and great as dental amalgam.

[Edited on 31-8-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]

MrHomeScientist - 31-8-2017 at 08:09

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
MMS isn't even a treatment it is the absolute quackery of the 18th century where they took arsenic as a cure for the cold! but at least they had an excuse back then!

It is a sick scam.


Actually, certain metals have long been known for disinfecting properties. Copper vessels for the transport of drinking water (to keep the water clear), silver for treating burn victims during World War I,...

My favorite is zinc that per a study published in the Australian Journal of Medicine unmasking its anti-microbial properties. Basically, it does a bad job in replacing Mn in the mechanics of nutrient injestion. So microbes starve or become very weak so that even ones body defensives can kill them. Here is one link: https://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news66182.html .

[Edited on 31-8-2017 by AJKOER]

This has nothing to do with anything. No one even mentioned metal (As isn't one). Are you suggesting that arsenic might have health benefits?

woelen - 31-8-2017 at 11:42

Dissolved sodium chlorite is not that dangerous. Just flush it through the toilet if you really want to get rid of it. It is less reactive than sodium hypochlorite (the latter is common bleach), but more reactive than sodium chlorate.

So, no need to worry about explosions or other nasty things when you dispose of it. It also is not a long-term issue for the environment. In a natural environment, it quickly is reduced to chloride, which is harmless (just table salt remains).

Using sodium chlorite as MMS is another story. That is the most stupid thing you can do. It is quite a strong oxidizer and in your body it will form chlorine dioxide as well, which also is quite a strong oxidizer. These compounds put considerable oxidative strain on your body, with possible formation of free radicals, which can cause cancer in the long run, but acute effects can be nausea, resulting from damage to tissue.
Sodium chlorite is NOT a medicine. It has many interesting uses, and for home chemists it is a nice thing to experiment with, but ingesting it is NOT among the nice things you can do with it.

j_sum1 - 31-8-2017 at 14:46

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  

Jeeez! I specified cannabis, not a 'synthetic approximation' of a single cannabinoid!

And the article I cited mentioned both natural cannabis and synthetic cannabinoids in the abstract. Conclusion (from that article anyway) is that there is insufficient evidence to substantiate your claim. That really is my only point here.

This thread has split three ways -- this discussion, chlorites and MMS. I am happy to put a lid on this one unless you want to open a new thread.

hissingnoise - 4-9-2017 at 06:30

The research cited in your article used synthetic cannabinoids only and as such can be seen as deliberately misleading, as is all anti-cannabis "research"!

Dora, if she's still reading, should read the following; http://nationalpainreport.com/marijuana-rated-most-effective...


Melgar - 5-9-2017 at 05:49

Good lord. From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Former Chicagoan Kerri Rivera, who now resides in Mexico, was required by the Illinois Attorney General to sign a document[32] stating that she would no longer promote the use of toxic chlorine dioxide, or "CD," in the state of Illinois. The agreement, which Rivera signed, says, "Respondent [Rivera] makes unsubstantiated health and medical claims regarding the use of chlorine dioxide in the treatment of autism. In truth and fact, Respondent lacks competent and reliable scientific evidence to support her claims that chlorine dioxide can treat autism. Respondent's act of promoting unsubstantiated health and medical claims regarding the use of chlorine dioxide in the treatment of autism constitutes a violation of Section 2 of the Consumer Fraud Act." The agreement continued to bar Rivera from speaking at seminars and selling chlorine dioxide or similar substances for the treatment of autism. However, Rivera operates a Facebook page[33] that promotes injecting autistic children with a toxic chlorine dioxide formula via enema and claims that the intestinal lining and membranes children expel as a result are parasites, which is patently false.

I know that the Geneva Convention prohibits the use of torture, but I can't think of anyone who deserves a daily forcible bleach enema more than this woman.

wg48 - 5-9-2017 at 08:35

I have not found an estimate of how many children were subject to this procedure. Do anyone know?

Metacelsus - 5-9-2017 at 10:11

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
Are you suggesting that arsenic might have health benefits?


On the (admittedly off-topic) subject of arsenic:

As2O3 can be used to treat leukemia, and sometimes works where safer chemotherapies fail.

Still, it's quite toxic (just more so to cancer cells than normal cells).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic_trioxide#Medical_appli...

Melgar - 6-9-2017 at 01:09

Quote: Originally posted by wg48  
I have not found an estimate of how many children were subject to this procedure. Do anyone know?

At least 357, according to this awful website:

http://cdautism.org/chlorine-dioxide-vs-chlorine

And those are just the ones that "recovered". No mention of the ones who didn't fare so well.

wg48 - 9-9-2017 at 05:58

Quote: Originally posted by Melgar  

At least 357, according to this awful website:

http://cdautism.org/chlorine-dioxide-vs-chlorine

And those are just the ones that "recovered". No mention of the ones who didn't fare so well.


That site blocks access from my location??

I guess that number is for America. Its only a very small fraction of the child population but it still surprises me that the parents did not take more care in determining its true efficacy and safety. However thinking about it, lots of people believe in homeopathy spiritualism even ghosts and deities. So it should not be a surprise to me that some parents desperate to help their child were taken in by a dangerous snake oil sales woman.