Sciencemadness Discussion Board - theoretical energetic materials

theoretical energetic materials

PHILOU Zrealone - 2-6-2003 at 02:00

Natural tatoo from henea like berberian girls.

Krypton, the tetranitodecaline seems interesting but tetra nitro cyclohexane is even better!
C6H8(NO2)4 ... ideally nitrocyclohexane C6H6(NO2)6 with gem dinitro instead of vicinal dinitro for stability purpose!
Summum is gem gemtetranitrocyclohexadione!
O=C(CH2-C(NO2)2)2C=O
and polymeric hydrazone!
O=C(CH2-C(NO2)2)2C=O + NH2-NH2 --> NH2-N=C(CH2-C(NO2)2)2C=N-N=C(CH2-C(NO2)2)2C=...

Krypton - 2-6-2003 at 15:28

PHIL,

here the hydrogen free nitrocyclohexane !

©cyclohexanedidecanitrate

1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6-didecanitrocyclohexacarbon

C6(NO2)12

[Edited on 3-6-2003 by Krypton]

[Edited on 3-6-2003 by Krypton]

PHILOU Zrealone - 3-6-2003 at 07:36

OK Krypton.Pernitrocyclohexane.
C6(NO2)12 or (-C(NO2)2-)6.
Density > or = to 2 g/ccm, VOD >/= 9 km/s.

But this has nothing to do with tatoos, has it ?
A little respect for the treads doesn't cost much... and help people that have lower brain activity

to keep order here and a clear mind

Krypton - 3-6-2003 at 16:22

Oh,
you found a other name for the product.

Double your knowledge with

pernitrodecalin

C10(NO2)18

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Krypton]

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Krypton]

PHILOU Zrealone - 4-6-2003 at 01:25

I didn't found another name...it is one of its names.
Dodecanitrocylohexane belongs to the familly of pernitrocompounds (by definition nitrocarbon organocompound with all H replaced by NO2).

To this familly a few members are made (inherent unstability), known and well studied:
1°)C(NO2)4 pernitromethane - tetranitromethane
2°)C2(NO2)6 pernitrohexane - hexanitroethane
3°)C2(NO2)4 pernitroethylene - tetranitroethylene
4°)C6(NO2)6 pernitrobenzene - hexanitrobenzene
5°)(O2N)5C6-C6(NO2)5 pernitrobiphenyl - decanitrobiphenyl
6°)C8(NO2)8 pernitrocubane - octanitrocubane

After this there are many unmakeable (there has been many trials to try to but noone succeed from now on, but spear is stil permitted since ONC was unmade until a few years ago, it was theoricised but unmade practically - or at least the one that succeed didn't survive its discovery)

C2(NO2)2 dinitroacetylene
C3(NO2)8 octanitropropane (and higher alcanes)
C7(NO2)8 octanitrotoluene
C10(NO2)8 octanitronaphtalene
C10(NO2)14 tetradecanitroadamantane

Pernitrocyclohexane is already a dream so pernitrodecaline is even more elusive; especially if we aren't able to make the simple ONP.

Krypton - 4-6-2003 at 15:40

Is
"C10(NO2)14 tetradecanitroadamantane"
a dream of a good chemist ?

Prepareded until now as useful products are

TNNA
TNA
HAHNA
(for instance Zajac 1989)

I think a hydrogen free single ring have a vod ~ 10 k/s.

HNB vod ~ 9,7 k/s.

Why not makeable ?

Triple your knowledge with

pernitrohydroparanaphthalene.

C14(NO2)24

PS.
This is in the wrong topic ! :mad:

[Edited on 4-6-2003 by Krypton]

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Krypton]

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Krypton]

PHILOU Zrealone - 5-6-2003 at 12:37

"PS: This is in the wrong topic !"

I know, it is a bit what I was trying to say:

"But this has nothing to do with tatoos, has it ? A little respect for the treads doesn't cost much... and help people that have lower brain activity to keep order here and a clear mind!"

Anyway.
If you read well two post ago: HNB belongs to the familly of made and well studied pernitroexplosives!

14-nitroadamentane is indeed stil a dream.
Even TeNAd, HeNAd are only computational models... not done yet in practice.
Most of those cage explosives like ONC are so expensive to do that nature size test are difficult and hell expensive...reason why most of the time you have "value*"
* computational approximation/calculation

Most of the time value* is off vs real value.

I say that I'm a true believer and that even those impossible for now molecule will find a synthetic pathway in a short to medium time delay...it was the case for HNB, then ONC, most of the rest will follow, it is simply a mather of time (AND MONEY).
Main problem is that it only interesses rocketry and military science...
For a rocket or militarian why bother with expensive, unstable and sensitive HNB when you can make cheaper HMX, TATNB/AN that goes as good with excellent stability properties and reduced sensitivities?

Krypton - 5-6-2003 at 16:11

TNNA, TNA, HAHNA was prepared for special applications, with high mp and insensitivity againt heat and mechanical attacks. Just as HNB as a good product for miniature charges wich are easy to detonate, for instance to cut hardest materials.

PHILOU Zrealone - 6-6-2003 at 09:36

HNB is on large scale fabrication in china.
There is no need for miniaturisation for it...it is much better to find a way to stabilise it.
HNB turns spontaneously into C6(OH)3(NO2)3 upon air contact and it frees NOx.

I noticed I have made a mistake C10H16 is adamantane and thus
14-nitroadamentane is false; pernitroadamantane is hexadeca(16)-nitroadamentane.

C10(NO2)16 will have a good density and a high power but needs a superfuel plasticiser or admixture to get optimum OB...
As explained on alt.engr.explosive percyanocompounds are excellent fuels.

If I have the possibility in a near future, I would like to test binary mix of tetracyanomethane and tetranitromethane...and see if my assumptions are true.

Anyway all pernitrocompounds are very sensitive to heat and shock when mixed with fuels and they outperform as binary mixes equivalent molecular HE compositions.

C(NO2)4/ NH2-C6H5 >> NH2-C6(NO2)4-CH3

Krypton - 6-6-2003 at 20:45

Does pernitroadamantane exist ?

This should be theoretically

C10(NO2)4[(NO2)2]6
tetranitroadamantane[di(hexanitrate)].

"HNB is on large scale fabrication in china" ?

Hopefully it don`t decompose rapid when transported !

Decanitrobiphenyl

BromicAcid - 11-10-2004 at 16:27

I saw this synthesis for it in a book and found it interesting. Seeing as how this thread mentioned this compound (only got 4 unique google hits for it) I decided to post this here. The third step down, second part, reaction of the product with sodium azide and oleum sounds just a little crazy though.

Anyway, not that this compound has any stability to it that would allow it to be a common explosive it is interesting none the less.

The same book also states that dinitroacetylene has never been made. It lists a few reactions that have been tried but says that none of them work. However, there are some methods that I can think of that they've never tried.

From:
[Nielsen, Arnold T. Nitrocarbons, VCH Publishers, 1995]

Marvin - 13-10-2004 at 03:40

Just for reference, looks a lot like a Curtius reaction to me.

http://www.chempensoftware.com/reactions/RXN164.htm

Relative of the Hoffman degredation.

Edit,
Whoops, Actually a Schmidt reaction, which is the same only you dont form the acyl azide in a seperate step, you just react the carboylic acid with hydrogen azide in solution. This one is linked from the same page.

[Edited on 13-10-2004 by Marvin]

DubaiAmateurRocketry - 29-9-2013 at 10:37

Quote: Originally posted by Krypton

PHIL,

here the hydrogen free nitrocyclohexane !

©cyclohexanedidecanitrate

1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6-didecanitrocyclohexacarbon

C6(NO2)12

[Edited on 3-6-2003 by Krypton]

[Edited on 3-6-2003 by Krypton]

Where can i find more info about this compound ?