Sciencemadness Discussion Board

White Fuming Nitric Acid

Booze - 12-5-2017 at 20:51

Hello. I got interested in WFNA, as it has very little info on wikipedia. My current guess on its prep is a nitric acid synthesis without water, and maybe bubbled with air afterward? Or added a little bit of urea? Can someone clarify a little bit? Thanks

j_sum1 - 12-5-2017 at 21:03

There are YT vids on the synthesis. Not dissimilar from making azeotropic NA. Simply distil from sulfuric acid and a dry nitrate.
Red fuming nitric acid occurs is you get any evolution of nitrogen oxides. Then you need to redistil.

But really, why? 68% is suitable for nearly everything. And WFNA is painful to store.

Make in small volumes as you need it.

Booze - 13-5-2017 at 07:36

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
There are YT vids on the synthesis. Not dissimilar from making azeotropic NA. Simply distil from sulfuric acid and a dry nitrate.
Red fuming nitric acid occurs is you get any evolution of nitrogen oxides. Then you need to redistil.

But really, why? 68% is suitable for nearly everything. And WFNA is painful to store.

Make in small volumes as you need it.

I wasn't going to make much, or keep it for very long.

Possible RDX synth.

Melgar - 13-5-2017 at 08:55

Before I could get 68% nitric acid OTC, my nitric acid was always WFNA, because I had to make it myself. It's actually not that bad, in my opinion. I just stored it in a dark brown polyethylene bottle and never had a problem. Basically, if you vacuum-distill sulfuric acid and 68% nitric acid, or sulfuric acid and a nitrate salt, you get WFNA. If you distill it without a vacuum, it's less white and more red. Of course, the vapors will destroy just about anything that you'd use to pull a vacuum except an aspirator, so keep that in mind.

Praxichys - 13-5-2017 at 09:03

I usually distilled KNO3 and H2SO4 without a vacuum to get RFNA and then used a fishtank air pump to blow dry air through it to kick out the NOx until water clear.

Booze - 13-5-2017 at 10:14

Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys  
I usually distilled KNO3 and H2SO4 without a vacuum to get RFNA and then used a fishtank air pump to blow dry air through it to kick out the NOx until water clear.

I have a pump, but really don't want to risk destroying it. I will do that.

ave369 - 13-5-2017 at 10:16

I've made WFNA successfully using battery acid boiled down to 90%, fertilizer grade potassium nitrate and a retort. Density measurements showed the concentration to be 95%. The trick is not to overheat the distilling flask, or you'll get RFNA instead.

CuReUS - 14-5-2017 at 08:40

While we are on the topic of W/RFNA,could someone answer these questions please -http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=71219#...

akmetal - 15-12-2023 at 16:22

Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
There are YT vids on the synthesis. Not dissimilar from making azeotropic NA. Simply distil from sulfuric acid and a dry nitrate.
Red fuming nitric acid occurs is you get any evolution of nitrogen oxides. Then you need to redistil.

But really, why? 68% is suitable for nearly everything. And WFNA is painful to store.

Make in small volumes as you need it.

I wasn't going to make much, or keep it for very long.

Possible RDX synth.


Very easy to just get an ATF permit, and if you use it the same day you dont have to have a magazine, even if you have to build a magazine its not that big of a deal unless you live in a highly urban area.

thermochromic - 23-12-2023 at 19:15

Quote: Originally posted by akmetal  
Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
There are YT vids on the synthesis. Not dissimilar from making azeotropic NA. Simply distil from sulfuric acid and a dry nitrate.
Red fuming nitric acid occurs is you get any evolution of nitrogen oxides. Then you need to redistil.

But really, why? 68% is suitable for nearly everything. And WFNA is painful to store.

Make in small volumes as you need it.

I wasn't going to make much, or keep it for very long.

Possible RDX synth.


Very easy to just get an ATF permit, and if you use it the same day you dont have to have a magazine, even if you have to build a magazine its not that big of a deal unless you live in a highly urban area.


Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure you do not need any permit from the AFT to simply synth rdx or other energetic (minus a few outlawed by name like TATP). Permitting is required for transportation, storage, or if you are making a destructive device. Is far is the “ if you use it on the same day” statement, I think you are thinking of ffl 07/SOT requirements for serializing and logging destructive devices. Perhaps there is a similar requirement for record keeping of explosives but like I said, if you are making some, not transporting, and using experimentally the same day on your own property, no licensing is needed, federally at least

[Edited on 24-12-2023 by thermochromic]

Rainwater - 24-12-2023 at 04:54

In the US, federal level, your correct.
But every state has different restrictions, and every county, more restrictions.
There is not a one size fits all answer here.
Best to ask your local authorities.
Most will be understanding, some will think your a nut job.
Mine wanted to see me workspace and lab logs.
Since moving into a more populated area, i was granted permission for quantities less than 0.1g.
and local noise/firework restrictions apply.


[Edited on 24-12-2023 by Rainwater]