Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Loocking for some OTC Emulsifier for AN/Paraffine/Mineral oil ect. sytems

Loocking for some OTC Emulsifier for AN/Paraffine/Mineral oil ect. sytems

dangerous amateur - 28-4-2017 at 13:30

Hi guys,

I wanted to experiment with such emulsions for some time, but all formulas I could find ask for some polymeric emulsifiers I cant get simply OTC.

Is there any common product that can be "abused" in its place and does the job in a usable way?

clearly_not_atara - 28-4-2017 at 14:06

Disinfecting wipes such as those branded Lysol® generally use a solution of quaternary ammoniums in water with a few fragrance agents and not much else. If you squeeze out the liquid, you may be able to extract the PTC, or use it as-is, hoping the fragrance agents don't cause an issue. Heating in vaccuum above 100 C for a few hours should get rid of volatiles.

Although, when fucking around with ammonium nitrate and oil, maybe it's best not to take chances...

[Edited on 28-4-2017 by clearly_not_atara]

PHILOU Zrealone - 28-4-2017 at 14:55

Will the emulsifying ability of soaps/detergents/cleaners (anionic, cationic or non-ionic) be effective into anhydrous media like AN/Mineral oil?
I highly doubt about it...usually you need water...then you are playing with "emulsion slurries"...
If it is the case then normally any soap will do...because to acheive emulsion you only need a very little amount of soap...the amount is determined by the critical micellar/micelle concentration.

You may also need to increase viscosity of the media to get a gellous stuf with agar-agar, alginate/Ca(2+) couple, painted wall paper glue (alkyl-hydroxy-cellulose or alkyl-hydroxy-cellulose acetate)...

[Edited on 28-4-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]

MineMan - 28-4-2017 at 18:54

use soap for the emulsifier and red gaur gum for the thickener. some industry emulsions also have a small amount of nitric acid mixed in and hexamine..

Dont forget the microabaloons!

Bert - 1-5-2017 at 00:52

Cheat...

Use some of the NH4NO3, water & starch.

Attachment: NHNO3.gells.HEx.US2548693.pdf (396kB)
This file has been downloaded 458 times

dangerous amateur - 1-5-2017 at 12:40

You probably overlooked that this cheat mixture is sensitized by 20% nitroglycerine

What would destroy the simplicity of the concept.

Thickener is no problem, guar gum is easy to get.
But I need to have an emulsion first, thats what maked the whole stuff so interesting.

Real emulsions can have 5000m/s at densities much greater than typical ANFO.
This is really interesting stuff. I wonder why it was never covered here, it must be more difficult as it seems.

clearly_not_atara - 1-5-2017 at 13:14

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

Will the emulsifying ability of soaps/detergents/cleaners (anionic, cationic or non-ionic) be effective into anhydrous media like AN/Mineral oil?
I highly doubt about it...usually you need water...

The canister I have says the active ingredient is 0.26% alkyl (50% C14 40% C12 10% C16) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides, aka benzalkonium chlorides. As these are quite common in commercial PTC I'm pretty sure they don't need water to work.

I don't know what is used to emulsify ANFO, but what I recommended is not "just soap".

PHILOU Zrealone - 1-5-2017 at 18:28

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

Will the emulsifying ability of soaps/detergents/cleaners (anionic, cationic or non-ionic) be effective into anhydrous media like AN/Mineral oil?
I highly doubt about it...usually you need water...

The water is included into the 99,74% remaining ingredients

...
The active ingredient is 0,26% quaternay ammonium salt what is part of the group of cationic soaps

DrP - 3-5-2017 at 04:46

What about plain old washing up liquid? That usually has sodium dodecyl sulphate in it... it's emulsifying properties are why it is used as a soap/dishwashing liquid.

Bert - 4-5-2017 at 04:01

Yes, did not read the fine print there.

Is Calcium stearate common enough?

https://www.google.com/patents/US3161551

Attachment: US3161551.pdf (350kB)
This file has been downloaded 463 times

If not, quick lime and stearic acid certainly are available. Or you could go for a palmitate, etc. depending on what materials you might have access to.

Manufacture of metal soaps
US 2890232 A

Attachment: US2890232.pdf (432kB)
This file has been downloaded 396 times

Laboratory of Liptakov - 9-5-2017 at 12:07

"Dangerous",
exist people, I known amateurs, which spend 1000 hours at developing homemade emulsion. They had all, what is possible get still before 10 years. Very experienced people. However, Without succesfull. If you need some extra plastic on water base, you can study http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=4076 Incredible properties..... :cool:

...LL

[Edited on 9-5-2017 by Laboratory of Liptakov]